Hello friends! After a disappointing encounter with Duolingo’s Latin course last year, I worked my way through Ørberg’s Familia Romana in the autumn, which I thoroughly enjoyed, especially for its romping soap opera of a plot. Now I’m feeling ready to start on something more meaty. As a Celt, I don’t think I could stomach Caesar, so I’ve bought “Reading Ovid: Stories from the Metamorphoses” by Peter Jones (no relation) as a way to get straight into a text with the stabilisers still firmly on.
That should keep me occupied for quite a while but I like to keep my eyes on the prize so I thought I’d canvass the worldly wise here on the Latin board about texts and commentaries. Here’s what I’ve found so far:
Single-book commentaries
Book 1 - Lee (BCP)
Book 3 - Henderson (BCP)
Book 8 - Hopkinson (Cambridge G&L)
Book 8 - Gould and Whiteley (BCP)
Book 10 - Fratantuono (Bloomsbury)
Book 11 - Murphy (BCP)
Book 14 - Myers (Cambridge G&L)
From that lot, I thought I’d get hold of the Barchiesi (et al.) translation and commentary on the first two books as it seems to have Tarrant’s text facing page. I’ve also seen Wilkinson’s Golden Latin Artistry recommended in previous threads - is that worthwhile getting at this stage? Anyway, my thanks for any advice people can offer up, including advice on reading Ovid - I can already see that the word order is absolutely wild.
This may be unhelpful but is not intended to be, but have you read Virgil? Ovid makes more sense after Virgil I think. If you dont want to read Caesar then what about Livy? Prose may provide a better introduction to unadapted Latin. if you want to read some poetry how about Catullus?
The Ovid volume edited by Knox in the Oxford readings in Classical studies series has an interesting selection of articles. And the Cambridge and Brill companions are packed with good things. I used Anderson when I read it as a set text.
Hi Sean,
I’ve just skimmed through the available pages on Amazon of Peter (no relation) Jone’s book and it certainly seems to be an excellent introduction to Latin epic poetry and knowing how much you enjoy poetry this is very good way to start. You’re going to be developing a somewhat different skill set in reading Latin poetry as opposed to prose and so for that reason, I would suggest carrying on with some prose work as well, perhaps go through Roma Aeterna (I didn’t spot any Caesar!) , or if not, then perhaps Cornelius Nepos, Sallust, and Livy (in that order). Coming back to poetry, as you see, the word order can be a bit challenging, but the syntax is less complicated, which is why I suggest continuing your reading of prose authors to further your knowledge and understanding of Latin syntax.
As I just saw Seneca’s post, consider this as a hearty seconding of Seneca’s suggestions. I love Virgil as well, more so after reading the Iliad, and I do find it somewhat easier in terms of word order and syntax, but from what I’ve seen, it appears that Jones does a good job of preparing you to read Ovid and his stories are delightful (personal favourites-Philemon & Baucis, Daedalus & Icarus). In any event, I’m delighted to see you’ve taken the plunge! I know you’ll enjoy it. Hopefully mwh and hylander will be weighing in soon with their guidance.
One of the nice things about Ovid’s Metamorphoses is the number of relatively short, self-contained selections, which you can really find with most of his works. If you go with Virgil, Clyde Pharr’s is a good one for books 1-6, or if you want the whole thing with commentary, you could try the edition from Williams and Lauren. I agree also with the other posters’ recommendations for other authors…except Catullus, but that’s just due to my general dislike of Catullus, not a statement about the quality of the recommendation. He also has numerous short, self-contained selections.
@Seneca not unhelpful at all. Thank you for the recommendations. I read Fitzgerald’s translation of the Aeneid a long time ago, probably when I was too young to get much out of Virgil apart from the exciting bits. Much more recently I read A.D. Melville’s translation of the Metamorphoses, which I really enjoyed and was the inspiration for me getting Jones’s Ovid along with his promise that “The book is designed for those who have completed an introductory course in Latin”. Part of the reason I’m so keen on Ovid is the enormous impact he had on medieval Welsh poetry. Dafydd ap Gwilym (our greatest poet) described himself as “dyn Ofydd” - Ovid’s man (also a play on his own name).
The problem I had with Greek prose in the beginning was that I always found it hard to convince myself I was getting a lot of benefit out of reading it in the original in that awkward period before I had even a basic appreciation of style or the scope of the vocabulary. With poetry I find that even if I have a very imperfect understanding it’s still better than reading a translation. Catullus I did consider because I’d heard he was easier than Ovid but I couldn’t find an edition with the kind of blindingly obvious verging on patronising notes that I need!
@Aetos less of a plunge, more of a slow march into very cold water OK if you both say to keep on with some prose I’ll do that. Thanks for the Nepos > Sallust > Livy suggestion. Do you have any recommendations for Nepos resources?
For Nepos, you can try Bret Mulligan’s edition of Nepos’ Life of Hannibal in the Dickinson College Commentaries. For some reason, Amazon UK reports it as being unavailable., but Abebooks shows copies available for shipping from the UK! Here’s the link: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=19959519036&searchurl=an%3DBret%2BMulligan%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title10
Although Nepos wrote a number of biographies, I think you might like Hannibal’s story-after all, he almost got his own back against those Roman bastards! Later on, you’ll be able to compare Nepos’ account with Livy’s in Ab Urbe Condita, Books 21-30. Nepos’ Latin is pretty straightforward and easy to understand. Sallust is more of an objective reporter of events and as such his language is uncomplicated. His Bellum Catilinae provides an interesting contrast with Cicero’s version of the Catilinian conspiracy. Livy colours his history with human interest and is a bit more of a stylist and thus at slightly higher level. His version of Hannibal’s campaigns really focuses on Hannibal rather than on the commanders who faced him, which I find rather refreshing and fair-minded. Polybius is one of his sources, so you can even compare a Greek account as well!
That’s ideal - I see the publisher also has a free pdf available here https://www.openbookpublishers.com/product/341 so I can use that for the text and use the Dickinson site alongside for the commentary and vocab. And only 10 pages of Latin! Bliss.
Hi Sean,
I’ve been out for a couple days, and this is my first sight of your post. I think you’ve been given excellent advice from others here, and see no need to add much.
You called Ovid’s word order absolutely wild. It is absolutely not. It is highly mannered. Augustan poets cultivated a distinctive stylistic idiom, which it won’t take you long to appreciate. Ovid takes full advantage of the possibilities of Latin syntax. Typically he’ll set you up with a couple of adjectives in different cases in the first half of the line, add a verb as mid-line anchor, and resolve the adjj with their respective nouns in the second half. It’s an aesthetically pleasing pattern, and he enjoys playing with it.
Wilkinson’s book is very good on this sort of thing.
Ideally you would read Vergil first, and ideally you would read a whole lot else before reading Vergil (Vergil is much more difficult than most people realize), but Ovid is irresistible, so dive in and have a ball. There is a dark side too, which will not escape you.
To run quickly through your main list.
Tarrant OCT: yes.
Loeb: Do without it if you possibly can. Donald Hill is a better alternative. (He was/is at Cardiff but very English.)
Bömer: very full, too full: indiscriminate and deadening.
Barchiesi. Most definitely yes. He did the intro (do read that) and the first two books himself, and the whole thing will be first rate. Once you’re up to speed you may find you don’t need anything else. (I don’t intend to use anything else myself.)
Hill, see above.
Anderson: fine but he ran out of steam, and the commentary shows signs of its age.
The Mett. really depend on your literary knowledge of the myths (plus variants), so do use a commentary for full savour.
I think you’ll enjoy Catullus 64 when you’re up for it (but don’t rush), and it’s something of an Ovidian forerunner.
Erudite but potted as always, Michael, thank you. Especially for the hearty recommendation of Barchiesi. I’m really looking forward to getting a feel for Latin verse - I’ve heard rumour of such things as a golden line but I’m sure the tale is better in the telling. Diolch o galon, grazie di cuore.
Well, yes, unless it’s now been translated. I should have said. The succeeding volumes are in Italian too. Unfortunately it seems the series got stuck at bk.6 (still Italian, Rosati), published over a decade ago now. For the subsequent books a number of English-speaking scholars had been lined up, but at least two are now dead, and I think the entire series was to be in Italian. I know nothing about possible plans for its continuation. But oh, I am so out of touch.
This sort of thing happens so often with multi-volume projects I sometimes think they should start at the end. How many times do we have to read about Arma virumque cano?
But Sean, the first six books should be enough to keep you occupied for a while.
You’re an unflagging tease but you do make me laugh.
I’ll probably join those English-speaking scholars before I get through all six books, but for now at least Latin is a nice distraction from the enforced garden cultivation.
I see from Alessandro Barchiesi’s profile at NYU it says:
“Recent projects include a book on Virgil and Italy (The War for Italia, a California UP book based on the 2011 Sather Lectures), a new edition in English of the multi-authored Italian commentary on Ovid’s Metamorphoses for which he serves as a general editor (under contract for Cambridge UP),”
Whether this will ever see the light of day is another matter.
He’s only 65 and presumably has a lot of time on his hands at the moment so fingers crossed?
Only tangentially related to this comment, but I found Mark Edwards’s Sound, Sense, and Rhythm: Listening to Greek and Latin Poetry, which is available for free on Project Muse during the pandemic (tip of the hat to Aetos), while I was looking for an introduction to Latin verse and I thought his discussion of ambiguity à la Empson was good prep, even though he doesn’t discuss Ovid. The earlier chapters on Homer look good too but I haven’t done anything more than scroll through them. Michael I’m sure will know all about this book and have opinions but I mention it for others who might be interested in a freebie while the libraries are closed.
OK if you both say to keep on with some prose I’ll do that. Thanks for the Nepos > Sallust > Livy suggestion. Do you have any recommendations for Nepos resources?