A Greek Boy was published with a separate monolingual vocabulary. There are pdfs of it on archive.org.
Do you have a transcript of the “Greek Boy at Home”?
Hotcajun,
Here’s a link to the Archive.org page for his Vocabulary to Greek Boy: https://archive.org/details/greekboyathomest00rousuoft/page/n1.
The unique (and helpful!) thing about this is that it is monolingual Greek, pitched toward Attic, but fairly simple vocabulary and sentence structure for the Greek definitions.
I like the vocabulary help you already have done, but this would be a welcome addition.
The transliterated text of Greek that the Grammar links with is part of this program, along with a (basic) translations.
The vocabulary Clovis created used a tool to check the semantic frequency of the word defined and required that the words of the definition used were ensured to be as frequent or more, and as concrete or more (using wordnet). We expended a considerable effort here, because I was not aware of work already done in that Rouse vocabulary! How much of the vocabulary does anyone here already have transcribed? I
The English translations of Greek Boy should be removed. Beyond defeating the whole point of the Greek-only reader, they are not done well at all:
ἀφικόμενοι δὲ εἰς τοὺς Δελφούς , ἔσφαξε τὰ ἱερὰ παρὰ τῷ βωμῷ · καὶ λαχὼν εἰσῆλθεν ὁ πατὴρ χρησόμενος τῷ μαντείῳ .
and when we had arrived into Delphi , he slayed the offerings by the altar : and my father , after he had casted lots , entered since he would converse with the oracle
This is the very first one that I clicked on.
I have OCRed all the pages of the vocabulary and am working with how to turn these into something readable…
So, is your advice that even “good” translations of Greek Boy should not be made available? It is a reasonable suggestion and is certainly in spirit with the intention of the original book.
Are there no dissenters who might feel having good translations available (even in a separate key) for a comprehension check would help students?
I could code my translation check so that would only provide this translation after receiving a valid translation attempt from the student first (“valid” = checking for appropriate length of input and english stop words to ensure it was not a random keyboard finger-dance; and timed spacing between keystrokes to ensure it was not a copy and paste) .
I don’t have a problem with a translation being made available. It can be useful to check your comprehension. There is a place for that, just as there is a place for semi/full immersion methods (which Rouse himself aimed at, thus his Greek to Greek vocabulary). It depends on your desires and goals, and what methods work best for each student. I myself am a late convert to the (semi) immersion approach, with use of conversational ancient Greek when possible (as Rouse did with his classes). I first studied Greek about forty years ago, while I only began using communicative methods with it about ten years ago.
I currently am reading Rouse’s edition of Lucian of Samosata’s Dialogues with the Gods. Rouse produced notes in Greek on the major vocabulary in the selected dialogues. I’m reading Lucian’s Greek and then the notes. I will also look at the Loeb translations of the Dialogues. The more options for learning and understanding the ancient texts, the better. Having said that, I find that a communicative, semi-immersion approach tends to lead to more long-term retention of vocabulary and structures for most students, and to more genuine comprehension when reading. But others do fine without that approach.
At the end of the day I will have Rouse vocabulary in a readable format and will incorporate these into the rest of the Clovis greek monolingistic definitions. On Monday I will start to proof these definitions with the above-mentioned tool. Once they start to look good I will expose the endpoint that serves these definitions. Thanks for the nudge to do this from this group!
That’s great, Hotcajun. It will be very helpful. Please provide a link to the Greek to Greek vocabulary once you publish it. Looking forward to spending more time with your site. Thanks for all the hard work!
Hi, w.r.t. Greek Boy: I did once a complete scan and proofreading of the text and the vocab incl. the vocabulary of the Greek 1st course. Used it for my own study. Always wanted to post it to Gutenberg site, but didn’t find time yet. Should be 99% fine (extensively used it myself).
Attached:
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incl. German (amateurish) translation https://drive.google.com/open?id=10u9KGStR89lBabrX5ZX0gR-e3zJhcgIU
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only vocab (engl. / german mostly):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_4XqIncUiLskk1v4NUvKgLhKkN0sBeK/view?usp=sharing -
Greek only https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hjOI0asS_PCxOAxyyBg0fEWFO9g9oUnV/view?usp=sharing
Ich glaub’ mich knutscht ein Elch!
I see the entire Greek Boy reader here along with the translations, and these look better than the ones Clovis generated in English. Indeed much of our work appears now a useless duplication of effort. I speak and read German, so this is an immense help.
But I do not find the grammar text. Is that linked?
Looks like you have it below!
Could be I overlooked the link. Is it on the same page as the English translations?
I still don’t understand why anyone would read Greek Boy alongside an English translation, when there are plenty of actual Greek authors that could be read instead for that purpose.
In the introduction, Rouse even recommends withholding the Greek vocabulary from students until review. The point of the course was to have the teacher explain everything, in Greek, as he went along the first time.
Just a few sentences before stating that “A neuter plural subj. has verb in sing.”, the editor’s note reads: “χαλεπὰ (εἰσι) τὰ καλά,” so I assume this is a mistake.
http://www.cloviscorp.com/collegium/grammar/activities/greek/rouse/grammar.html#Chapter3
If anyone is interested I recently make this memrise course https://www.memrise.com/course/5707047/a-greek-boy-at-home-anc-greek-anc-greek-vocab/ in order to exercise myself in the active learning of ancient greek, take a look.
Great job, @Sohtnirybal. I believe any modern textbook or course without flashcards is not complete.
Me too, i believe that too, I consider this flashcards as provisional or contingential, because i think the vocabulary should be re-arranged not but frequency but in thematic order, thing that I tried when I see so many crucial vocabulary that has been relegated after the frequency order has been done. But this second option as it seems to me will take much more time, but when I complete it I will gladly share it here. I consider a thematic vocabulary one that follows the order of each chapter might respect the thematic filigree with which Rouse had tissue each chapter. Respecting this I think the flashcards will be make a more succesful work, but in the meanwhile I plan to study with this ones I did.
Regards
MÁng.