help with homework checking

Latin Learning Latin
1

Hi there. I’m studying latin on my own, and would like if some of you could gently help me with my homework.
I just want to know if I have got anything wrong. Recommendations are welcome.

(sempronia tells stories to the devoted girls)
Sempronia fabulam dictat puellis sedulae.

(students obey the teacher)
discipulae obtemperant magistrae.

(the lady orders the slaves)
domina seruis imperat.

(the teacher tells stories to the students)
magistrae fabulas discipulis narrant.

(Livia recites the story to Sempronia)
liuia fabulam recitat semproniae.

(Lucretia serves dinner to friends)
lucretia cenam dat amicis.

(Slaves obey good ladies)
seruae bonarum dominis obtemperant.


thanks.

2

Hi Cyborg,

(sempronia tells stories to the devoted girls)
Sempronia fabulam dictat puellis sedulae.

I’d write: Sempronia fabulas puellis sedulis narrat.

“Sedula” should be in ablative. It’s attached to “puellis”. She tells stories, not a story, therefore pluralis of “fabula”, too. When telling stories, i would suggest verb “narrare” instead of “dicere”.

(students obey the teacher)
discipulae obtemperant magistrae.

Correct. If the teacher is male, though, you should write “magistro”.
I am also tempted to use the sub.conj. instead of indicative here.

(the lady orders the slaves)
domina seruis imperat.

Domina servis imperat.
“The lady rules over the slaves”?

(the teacher tells stories to the students)
magistrae fabulas discipulis narrant.

I’d write: Magister fabulas discipulis narrat.

(Although your sentence is correct if you mean “The teachers tell stories to the students”)

(Livia recites the story to Sempronia)
liuia fabulam recitat semproniae.

Correct. Although i’d change the word order to:
Livia fabulam Semproniae recitat.

(Lucretia serves dinner to friends)
lucretia cenam dat amicis.

I wouldn’t use the verb “dare” here. Use “servire” (dative), or “apponere”.

I’d write: Lucretia cenae amicis servit.

(Slaves obey good ladies)
seruae bonarum dominis obtemperant.

I’d write:
Servi dominis bonis obtemperant.
(The male slaves obey good ladies.)

or

Ancillae dominis bonis obtemperant.
(The female slaves obey good ladies.)

Vale!

3

Salue, Ioannes!
I really appreciate your help. :slight_smile:

I’ll refer to the sentences as if they were sorted.

  1. the “fabulas” part was a silly mistake. the “puellis” part, though, was going to be my next question :slight_smile:

  2. the teacher is always female for me because i’m still only using the first declension; and i’m also only using the indicative for now :slight_smile:

  3. yes. I was having trouble figuring the “rules over” expression out.

  4. yes, I meant “the teachers” plur. fem.

  5. I’d do that too, but the book i’m using insists on writing it like so. :slight_smile:

  6. "I’d write: Lucretia cenae amicis servit. "
    why “cenae” here?

  7. I had re-done my homework before your help and came up with “seruae obtemperant bonae dominis” but with your help I now think I get it - you say the genitive of a dative falls to dative too?

so I’d write “Sempronia fabulam dictat puellis sedulis” for “sempronia tells a story to the devoted girls” ?


But is the following still correct?
bona discipula sum, bona discipula es, bona discipula est; bonae discipulae sumus, bonae discipulae estis, bonae discipulae sunt.


Plus, when my book tells me to “decline together” “sedula serua” sing. should I go “sedula serua”, “sedulam seruam”, “sedulae seruae” ?


Thanks!

4

I have to disagree with using servit here. servire means “to serve” in the sense “to be of service to”, so it doesn’t make sense to “serve dinner” in that sense. I think that is a later divergence of sense, unless someone can prove me wrong.

  1. I had re-done my homework before your help and came up with “seruae obtemperant bonae dominis” but with your help I now think I get it - you say the genitive of a dative falls to dative too?

The problem was that there should not have been a genitive in the sentence to begin with; the sentence “the slaves obey good ladies” has no possessive “of” or " 's". What you said was “the slaves obey the ladies of good”. “good” (bonae) modifies “ladies” (dominis), so bonae should carry the same ending (-is).

so I’d write “Sempronia fabulam dictat puellis sedulis” for “sempronia tells a story to the devoted girls” ?

Yes, though as Ioannes often mentioned, this is not the ideal verb :wink:

But is the following still correct?
bona discipula sum, bona discipula es, bona discipula est; bonae discipulae sumus, bonae discipulae estis, bonae discipulae sunt.

all correct

Plus, when my book tells me to “decline together” “sedula serua” sing. should I go “sedula serua”, “sedulam seruam”, “sedulae seruae” ?

Yes. As far as you are concerned right now, if an adjective modifies a noun, the adjective will carry the same ending as that noun. The more general rule however, which will come into action when you learn some 1st declension masculine nouns or adjectives/nouns of the 3rd declension, is that an adjective always has the same gender, case, and number as the noun it modifies.

5

I have to disagree with using > servit > here. > servire > means “to serve” in the sense “to be of service to”, so it doesn’t make sense to “serve dinner” in that sense. I think that is a later divergence of sense, unless someone can prove me wrong.

Ah, I stand correct. (I thought it also could mean “to serve”. Although that wouldn’t been logical now. ) Then “apponere” is ideal for this purpose.

6

Saluete, benissimus et Ioannes!

I appreciate your helping me study this unique language. I bought four books on Latin, but without a teacher to check my homework I see no alternative other than relying on the only people I know who do study Latin and understand it better than I do. In that way, I’m sorry to take your time, but I promise I’ll only ask for help on the answers I feel to be possibly wrong. :slight_smile:


Can I write the directly below sentence like shown?

(Silvia is Sempronia’s pupil)

  1. discipula Semproniae Siluia est.


    I’m having second thoughts on the correctness of the below translation (english → latin):

(the poets’ tales delight the girls)
2. Fabulae poetarum puellas delectant.


I’m curious about how would you word-sort the following:
(Lucretia’s female slaves are devoted)
3. seruae Lucretiae sedulae sunt.
[I followed the “cena seruae” (female slave’s dinner) example]


(Sempronia’s pupils play with the balls)
4. discipulae Semproniae pilis ludunt.


“domina” here should not decline to the accusative, should it?
(the female slave adorns the lady’s table with roses)
5. serua mensam dominae rosis ornat.


“magistra” here should not decline to the ablative, should it?
(the girls take pleasure of the teacher’s friendship)
6. puellae amicitia magistrae gaudent.


Valete.

7

Please don’t be sorry. It gives me something other than homework to do when I am bored (which is quite often).


Can I write the directly below sentence like shown?

(Silvia is Sempronia’s pupil)

  1. discipula Semproniae Siluia est.

yes, this is correct. the verbs est and sunt (and all forms of esse) usually do not come at the end of the sentence like regular verbs, but they certainly may (though it seems a bit drab).

I’m having second thoughts on the correctness of the below translation (english → latin):

(the poets’ tales delight the girls)
2. Fabulae poetarum puellas delectant.

perfectly correct.


I’m curious about how would you word-sort the following:
(Lucretia’s female slaves are devoted)
3. seruae Lucretiae sedulae sunt.
[I followed the “cena seruae” (female slave’s dinner) example]

correct.

(Sempronia’s pupils play with the balls)
4. discipulae Semproniae pilis ludunt.

correct.

“domina” here should not decline to the accusative, should it?
(the female slave adorns the lady’s table with roses)
5. serua mensam dominae rosis ornat.

correct. domina should certainly not be accusative; “lady’s” is an English genitive, so it is just a matter of putting it into the Latin genitive.

“magistra” here should not decline to the ablative, should it?
(the girls take pleasure of the teacher’s friendship)
6. puellae amicitia magistrae gaudent.

again, “teacher’s” is an English genitive, so it is a simple matter of conversion. your translation is correct.



Good job. English to Latin translations are notoriously difficult, but you seem to be getting them well.

8

Thanks for making me feel welcome. I shall provide help and support to other beginners when I get better, firstly to give something in return for the help I’m receiving and secondly to keep practicing and revising.

On “esse”, do you say I should write “Siluia est discipula Semproniae” and “seruae Lucretiae sunt sedulae”? I agree that they become more readable (avoiding that many -ae in a row in the second sentence seems like a good idea), but my book - which I don’t think it’s a bad book yet only because I’m still at the beginning of it - insists on putting “est” and “sunt” at the end of sentences. Oddly, it puts other verbs in the middle of sentences (like in “Lucretia cenam dat amicis”).

I should admit I’m not exactly translating from English to Latin - I’m actually translating from Portuguese to Latin when doing my homework, and then I translate from Portuguese to English when asking you people for help. :slight_smile:

I can see why English to Latin translations may be difficult, and I’d guess my being a Portuguese native speaker might give me an edge. I think I was discovered when I wrote “the lady orders the slaves” instead of “the lady rules over the slaves”, wasn’t I? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m also very fond of the English language, but “per aspera ad fluentia” (that’s a wild guess) :slight_smile:

9

Those are the only ones I think may be incorrect in my latest exercises.

(poet, tell (you) the girls the story of the sailors!)

  1. poeta, historiam nautarum puellis narra!

(female friends, read (you) the story of the eagle and the flies)
2. amicae, historiam aquilae et muscarum legite.

(the female pupils learn the poet’s tales)
3. discipulae fabulas poetae discunt.

(the poets’ tales please the girl very much)
4. fabulae poetarum puellae placent ualde.


I now know the verb “audio, -is, -ire” and wonder if the “au” in it is a diphthong. Is its tonic syllable “aUdio” or “AUdio”?

10

These all appear to be correct. However, imperatives typically go at the beginning of a sentence and vocatives somewhere in the middle.


I now know the verb “audio, -is, -ire” and wonder if the “au” in it is a diphthong. Is its tonic syllable “aUdio” or “AUdio”?

“au” is always or at least nearly always a diphthong, like the English sound “ow”. When you see two vowels that can form a diphthong, they always will, unless they are of differing quantity or marked with diaeresis. Only if diacritical marks are missing do you have to wonder if there is a diphthong or not.

11

So I’d write “narra historiam nautarum poeta puellis” or maybe “narra historiam nautarum puellis, poeta”?

Okay, those are the last ones before I revise the ten chapters I’ve read so far:

(the female pupils go to school because of the teacher’s friendship)

  1. discipulae scholam frequentant propter amicitiam magistrae.

(we read pretty tales about insects)
2. fabulae pulchrae de bestiolis legemus.


And thank you for the tips on diphthongs. :slight_smile:

12

These are both fine. Personally, I would say narra, poeta, historiam nautarum puellis

Okay, those are the last ones before I revise the ten chapters I’ve read so far:

(the female pupils go to school because of the teacher’s friendship)

  1. discipulae scholam frequentant propter amicitiam magistrae.

this is correct

(we read pretty tales about insects)
2. fabulae pulchrae de bestiolis legemus.

bestiola… that’s a new one to me. the only error is that you haven’t put the direct object into the accusative.

13

Hi again,

I have a few more questions…


“Quintus collegis exemplo est.”
(Quintus serves as an example to his fellows)

Quintus: nom.
collegis: dat. (or is it?)
exemplo - ?? (and more importantly - why?)

why is not “exemplum” nom.? I noted that the verb “esse” does not force declension on its respective noun, so I write “puer bonuS est” and not “puer bonuM est”. Is “exemplo est” some kind of idiomatic expression?

What about “dono dat”? Actually I can understand that one more clearly, but still cannot answer: is “dono” dative or ablative here?

In “statuam dei hortorum coronis ornant”, there’s an obvious “chain” of genitives, so I’d read “they adorn the statue of the gardens’ god”, right?

“ideo pueri pigri magistrum “Orbilium Plagosum” uocabant.”
Why does the narrator wrote “Orbilium Plagosum” in the accusative?

“ubique rosae rubrae redolent, narcissi flaui rident, lilia alba oculos delectant.”
Why do I find that hard to believe?

And at last: “Raro serui dominis, domini seruis contenti erant.”
Is this “slaves with masters and masters with slaves were rarely happy”?

Thanks for the help.

14

quick help, anyone - please? :unamused:

15

“Quintus collegis exemplo est.”
(Quintus serves as an example to his fellows)

Quintus: nom.
collegis: dat. (or is it?)
exemplo - ?? (and more importantly - why?)

Check any grammar for Double Dative or Predicative Dative




In “statuam dei hortorum coronis ornant”, there’s an obvious “chain” of genitives, so I’d read “they adorn the statue of the gardens’ god”, right?

yes.

“ideo pueri pigri magistrum “Orbilium Plagosum” uocabant.”
Why does the narrator wrote “Orbilium Plagosum” in the accusative?

Voco takes Acc.

16

Dative of reference and dative of purpose. Thanks :slight_smile:

“Quintus collegis exemplo est.”
Quintus “to his fellows” (reference) “as an example” (purpose) is = Quintus serves as an example to his fellows.

17

Dative of reference and dative of purpose. Thanks > :slight_smile:

Dative of Reference is a little different:

The Dative often depends, not on any particular word, but on the general meaning of the sentence:

tibi arás (Plaut. Merc. 71), you plough for yourself.
tuás rés tibi habétó (Plaut. Trin. 266), keep your goods to yourself (formula of divorce).

(Allen and Greenogh)


“Quintus collegis exemplo est.”
Quintus “to his fellows” (reference) “as an example” (purpose) is = Quintus serves as an example to his fellows.

This really is a Predicative Dative or Dative of Purpuse (also called Double Dative or Dative of Service)

http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.382.html

18

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:3au_6FOrqtYJ:encyclopedia.lockergnome.com/s/b/Latin_grammar+"double+dative"&hl=pt-BR

Other uses:**Dative of agent: Expresses agent when used with the future passive periphrastic, also known as the gerundive: The boy must do the work. (translated literally as “The work must be done by the boy”)**Dative of Reference often used with Dative of Purpose (named collectively as the Double Dative): The general sent troops as aid (for the purpose of aid) for the general (with reference to the general).

More importantly: is my translation correct? Did I understand the sentence’s meaning?

19

Oh, I see what you mean. Sure. The translation seems all right.

20

Heh, thanks for checking it.

The quote above is from the website from which I (thought I) learnt the “double dative” thing. I’m still not sure why am I wrong on that, since the quotation’s example is very alike mine.