Hi -Here is my version of 9 eta. I am willing to forgo 9 theta, and move on to Lesson 10, so see everybody there.
Athenaze Lesson Nine eta
Exercise 9η
Read aloud and translate:
sorry, time flies and I’ve been busy with family matters.
I’ll catch up on everything.
be patient with me, both of you.
I still have Jason’s remarks to go through and then on to CH 10.
btw, I read your posts about recruiting members but I’m unable to help you.
Jason, I WANT to go on to book 2 after bk 1, but I’ve already done some work on it and I won’t be able to go as fast as we are now. I wonder whether you will.
Never ever give up hope, I am here
In ex 9ζ I misspelled messenger
Too vague context, nearly anything possible Exercise 9η
Ex 9η I think I did a good job
A very nice point, thanks to your comment it is now clear to me that present participle refers to an ongoing, in progress action, regardless of time. Aspect rather than chronological order.
But don’t forget that AORIST is highly indefinite; your explanation is clear , though it stresses event order more than Attic aorist did. You say we would expect aorist, that doesn’t mean we’ll necessarily find it.
Another interesting point! I certainly need more work on the use of participles, but personally I think that our different uses of participle reflect more our different native tongues and cultures than lack of aorist participle. Your accurate, clear, clean word order sounds more Anglo-Saxon, if you see what I mean. Or more koiné perhaps? I’m sure we’ll be back on the subject.
I’d rather change my ἔρχομαι to prosἔρχομαι, ἰέναι hasn’t been covered yet; εἰσέρχεσθαι even better.
ἔπειτα δὲ = and/but when ἔπειτα δή = after that
You’re right about accents of course, I was momentarily disconnected
I used ἐγὼ as opposed to the companions, too far-fetched?
I’m going to start working on ch 10 (though I remember saying the same weeks ago, but that was overoptimistic and before family matters and flu).
bye
“Obey” here is surely better than “be persuaded by.” Notice that “be persuaded” (passive) would be accompanied by ὑπό with the agent (ὑπὸ αὐτοῦ). However, “obey” goes with the object in the dative (αὐτῷ), which is what we have here.
Again, as I asked bruna, look at the use of παῖς here, which could be either “son” or “servant” – both being “boy.” What in the sentence indicates that it would be his son rather than his servant?
Notice that οἱ μέν… οἱ δέ… means “while some… others…” That is, it doesn’t say “those” (ἐκεῖνοι) but “some” (οἱ μέν…). The genitive (τῶν πολιτῶν) comes across in translation also: “while some of the citizens did X, others (of the citizens) did Y.” It’s the partitive genitive.
Yes. This demonstrates what I just wrote about the previous exercise – with the partitive genitive. “Some of the girls.” Again, I’d go with “but others” in the second phrase.
The demonstrative “those” would be ἐκεῖναι. We don’t have a demonstrative here. It’s just “the girls who are carrying.” You left τὰ κανᾶ (“the baskets”) out of your translation.
Second time you’ve translated θεάομαι as “witness.” Why not just “watch”? It can be “watch, observe, see, look at, etc.” Why would you take it as “witness”?
We haven’t had “can” yet. ὁρᾷς is indicative – “you see.” The question (ἆρα… just changes it to “do you see?” The word order in English would also change: “those working in the field.”
Again, where did “those” come from here? οἱ σοὶ φίλοι simply means “your friends.”
Great.
Great.
Great.
Again, just “your friends.” “Those friends of yours” would be ἐκεῖνοι οἱ φίλοι σου or οἱ σοὶ φίλοι ἐκεῖνοι (something like this – there are a few permutations of the same basic idea). The definite article is not interchangeable with the demonstrative. We translate participial substantives with “those,” but not as a demonstrative really. “Those who run” is really indefinite, meaning “anyone who runs.” Either that or definite, referring to specific people: “the ones who are running are very fast.” Even though we would say “those who are running are very fast” with the same meaning, don’t think that οἱ in any and every situation can mean “those.” (Even though οἱ was indeed a demonstrative adjective in Homer!!)
Not “those ladies” but “the women.” It’s not demonstrative, as I mentioned above. Apart from this, this sentence is good.
Great.
I hope that I’ve not been too critical. Paying attention to details (the difference between οἱ τρέχοντες “those who run” and οἱ παῖδες οἱ πρὸς τὴν κώμην τρέχοντες “the boys who are running to the village” [not “those boys who are running to the village”]) will help us in the future when things get more complicated and we’ll really have to notice small changes in form to get to the intended meaning. We don’t want to gloss incorrectly and not take the forms and syntax into account, since it will save us such a headache later on.
I don’t think we can go too far with the concept that the aorist doesn’t have any definition. I know that this is the etymology of the term, but there is certainly a sense of antecedent action with the participles in the aorist - not just non-continuous action. The verb in the present participle is most generally understood to be taking place at the same time as the main verb to which it is attached, and the aorist participle is action that took place before the main verb. We don’t have to translate it that way, but this is a basic principle of how these participial forms differ from one another in conception.
