So, we’re slowing working toward the end of Ἀθήναζε, as I mentioned before. We’re coming up on chapter 25 out of 30.
I’m thinking that when we finish Ἀθήναζε we will do another grammar study while reading and translating through an intermediate reader (like Lucian’s Ass or Lucian’s A True Story). The grammar study will come from Hansen and Quinn’s Greek: An Intensive Course.
Would anyone be interested in joining a group that works through Hansen & Quinn and an intermediate reader?
Let me know!
Perhaps we’ll use Plato’s Apology since Geoffrey Steadman has included his textual commentary with running vocabulary for free on his WordPress site.
He has other options there, so we can be open to choose something else — or to read one text after another!
Hi Jason, nice to meet you. I am new here.
Recently I am thinking starting a hobby of reading ancient Greek texts like the Plato’s dialogues.
Do you think it is good idea to dive right into Hansen & Quinn’s intensive course if I don’t have any knowledge on Greek?
Do you think I could join your study group?
Thank you very much 
This text is really not friendly to someone with zero knowledge of Greek. I would suggest that you start with Athenaze. Do you know of that text?
Jason, this is a bit off topic from your post, but I have seen you (and others) recommend Athenaze before, even for those wanting to focus on New Testament koine. Mind telling me (us?) why? I have used Mounce BBG and am not necessarily looking for a starter grammar, but am curious why Athenaze seems to get positive support. Thanks!
χαῖρε / שָׁלוֹם, Mike.
A good Koiné author will write in Attic fashion. The Koiné is directly related to Attic, and if you learn Attic Greek, you can already read the Koiné with very little adjustment. I recommend Athenaze because spending time reading stories in Greek will do nothing but advance your ability to read and comprehend. This ability can be directly transferred to your knowledge of the New Testament (and the Septuagint, which is also written in the Koiné). The main differences between Attic and Koiné lie in the dropping of the optative mood (which is good to know even for reading higher-level writings in the Koiné), the dropping of certain particles in (like δή in normal expression, though it also appears in higher-level Koiné), a simplified syntax (fewer sandwiched genitives [more frequently simple following the head noun], simpler left-to-right word order [not delaying the verb to the end of the phrase], etc.), and a vocabulary that is more saturated with Semitic concepts and a lexis that focuses more on issues of the people at the time.
The Basics of Biblical Greek (Mounce) really just covers the absolute basics. Once you’ve finished studying that textbook, you will be completely underqualified for reading the better books of the New Testament (such as Romans, Acts, and Hebrews). It just doesn’t prepare the student to actually read the New Testament, except perhaps for 1 John and maybe the Gospel of John. If you study Athenaze, you will be able to read the more difficult portions of the New Testament without much difficulty once you’ve covered the period-specific vocabulary for those books.
I used BBG when I was 17 years old to learn basic NT Greek. I think it did more harm than good once I got to the point of wanting to just read the text. I just don’t think it is sufficient to prepare someone for reading the New Testament—and it certainly doesn’t prepare you for reading beyond the New Testament, even texts from within the wider Koiné textual corpus.
I will add: if you learned from BBG, you might do well to start over with Athenaze. It will fill in so many holes and get you reading Greek stories for enjoyment.
Regards,
Jason
I will look for the text and start with it. Thank you for the recommendation!
Thanks! That is what I was looking for, a nice, quick overview of the “why”. I am past Mounce; I can read fairly comfortably the LXX and more difficult NT books, even though I do lack specific vocabulary. I hope to someday get into Philo and the Patristics, as well as some non-Christian original texts. I wish I had started with Athenaze years ago on my autodidactic journey, full of potholes and mudpits along the way. But alas I tried for too long to solo it. (You may recognize my name from the B-Hebrew site. I have finished Kutz and Josberger and can pick my way through the OT. Still lots of vocabulary to conquer, but I can “read” the text, which I try to do some daily.)
If you finished Mounce and can read the NT comfortably, you’ve done very well as an autodidact. Where I studied, we used Mounce (as I mentioned) and then used Metzger’s Lexical Aids and A Concise Exegetical Grammar of New Testament Greek by Greenlee. I don’t remember much from that little grammar, but the vocab tests were pretty serious. At the end of second-year Greek, he gave us an unseen text from one of the Apostolic Fathers for us to translate, which I remember still being difficult. Don’t know how I would fare on it today! Wish I could go back and take a glipse of what it was and see its difficulty.
I’m thinking of options for a new biblical Hebrew reading course to open very soon (probably next month). I’m considering either using Muraoka’s reader or developing something of my own.
I’m a little surprised to hear Hansen & Quinn described as not beginner-friendly, as I was under the impression that it’s used by many universities in their intensive summer programs intended to introduce Greek to their students. And I also was under the impression that a reader such as Athenaze is usually utilized only after the student has learned some of the basic grammar points. But perhaps I was mistaken, as I wasn’t aware that Athenaze contains grammar explanations as well. This is encouraging to hear, as I think it’s more productive to start learning Greek with as many readings as possible, not simply grammar rules introduced out of context.
What’s your projected start date for this? Sometime in May?
Have you taken a look at Hansen & Quinn? In four chapters of that book, I covered more grammar than we did in three years of Koinē study in undergrad. When it says intensive, it means it.
Athenaze has grammar throughout. Those who use the Italian version without knowing Italian may simply ignore the grammar explanations, but they are there. The English versions have extensive discussions of the relevant grammar for the chapter.
Yeah, that’s the goal.
We’re being a bit delayed. We’re in the middle of chapter 27 of Athenaze at this point. We’ll be doing 27λ at the beginning of our next session on Monday — and working through the longer reading from the Italian version as quickly as possible. We’ll probably be starting chapter 28 in three weeks. The final chapters, of which we’re reading all of the readings from the Italian version as well as the New Testament Greek sections from the English version and going through all of the translation exercises, are taking us about a month per chapter.
Perhaps this delay will help us get a few more takers for Hansen & Quinn? I’ll do some advertising on Facebook groups, too, to see if we might build a larger group to get started with that book and with reading (probably a Platonic dialogue).
Am I correct to surmise that the Hansen & Quinn/Plato reading group is now projected to start around mid or late July?
I’m interested to join, although I won’t have completely finished Athenaze by that time.
Yes. It deeps getting delayed by personal things that grow the length of the Athenaze study. We are finishing Athenaze 27 on Monday and starting 28 for the following Monday.
Hi Jason
What is the status of the study group? Are you reading Athenaze now or have you started Hansen & Quinn?
I would like to join for a couple of sessions, if possible, as an auditor, to evaluate whether my level is appropriate.
kind regards
Christian
We’re still plodding through Athenaze. We’ll meet for our third session covering chapter 28 on Monday (midnight in Israel, for time zone matching). We’re starting with exercise 28ι when we meet and will quickly get into some reading.
You’re welcome to join us!
Topic: Ἀθήναζε
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83765462133
Passcode: 083954
Yours,
Jason
Well, we didn’t see you. Are you going to join us at some point?
Hi Jason!
Thank you for the link! I’ve been away from my email since Thursday, so I did not see it in time for yesterday.
Are you continuing next Monday? In that case, I will join there then!
-is it correctly understood that you Meet 0.00 / 24.00 at Israel time which is GMT+3?
Yes, this is correct. The same link at that time. We’re doing the long reading from the Italian version of chapter 28. We’ll be starting on chapter 29 for the following Monday.
Jason
Hey, Hortensius.
It was nice to have you meet with us today. You really added to the group!
See you in two weeks.
Jason