Hello,
I am a Greek myself and the reason I am writing you is because I have some questions for the people who learn ancient Greek.
Eis to epanidein
Welcome to Textkit, Pangnosis. Most of us who are learning Greek use a font called SP Ionic. Perhaps you haven’t got it on your computer, and that’s why you find it difficult to read what we write. You can find out about it here:
http://discourse.textkit.com/t/representing-greek-font-notes-for-new-users/131/1
It will also tell you how to install it on your computer (it’s quite easy – and free 
)
I know what Modern Greek sounds like, but ancient Greek was different, all we have to go by are reconstructed pronunciations. Normally I follow those and not modern Greek, sometimes it’s annoying though as the pronunciation of ancient Greek varies from book to book and country to country it seems 
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And once you have it installed, you can see that all the symbols are accents, breathing marks, etc.
No. And I don’t care, because I will never speak Ancient Greek; I will only read it.
You probably don’t know what it sounds like, either. The modern Greek language does not sound the same as the ancient language probably did. For instance, it was probably a tonal language, like Swedish or Czech.
Kalimera, Pangnosis(All-Knowledge?)!
There is another reason for using the reconstructed pronunciation while it doesn’t matter if I use the modern one, since I’m not going to take a time machine and go to Plato to have a chat. It’s memory. The modern pronunciation gets several different spellings indiscriminate. And that confuses the memory of a foreign student. This is why I try to pronounce even the iota subscript which is said to be ignored by late Attic speakers. And various phonetical changes are more easy to understand with the reconstructed pronunciation. i.e. “syn + foni → symfony” would be a mystery. But “syn + phoni → symphoni” is natural.
Dutch people such as myself van pronounce almost anything the right way.
Χαίρετε,
I know what Modern Greek sounds like, but ancient Greek was different, all we have to go by are reconstructed pronunciations. Normally I follow those and not modern Greek, sometimes it’s annoying though as the pronunciation of ancient Greek varies from book to book and country to country it seems .
Lately I have read some articles about the ancient Hellenic phonology. Those teach that the ancient Hellenic language sounded different from what the modern sounds like nowadays. I don’t know for sure whether that’s true or not.
The accents-tones and the names of letters such as o-mikron (O small), o-mega (O-big), e-psilon (E-thin?) indicate that this was a fact.
There is the other side of the story though. How can that be true? All of these are based on asumption and as you said above every book gives a different theory.
Romans copied a lot of Hellenic words and usually they changed their endings for example the Hellenic Electron became Electrum in Roman. The Hellenes did the same when they were using foreign words, using the ending -ος, for instance Κέκροψ, which is probably Pelasgic, in Greek is Κέκρος.
I don’t know how Latin sounded and sounds but I don’t understand why the phonology of the Hellenic language must have changed when it could have happened the opposite. Maybe the sounds of Latin have changed and that’s why we see so many different pronounciations of j and for other letters as well. ΤΖ-G in English, Χ (as the Greek X) in Spanish, ΓΙΑ in the Slavic languages and so on.
Also, imagine pronouncing Ρωμαίοι based on that phonology, it would sound as Roma-e-o-e or the word λέη which would sound as le-e-e.
Yet, there is a conversation,
-Αυτός ο καφές είναι ακριβός (This coffee is expensive)
-Ακριβώς, αυτό λέω και εγώ (Exactly, this is what I am saying too)
Instead of expensive, this is what I am saying too. (This is what I am saying too has the meaning of This is what I think too).
as we can see here ο and ω help us distinguish the meaning of the words, another example could be Πόλις and Πόλεις, the first singular the second plural.
I can not have an opinion on this subject yet since I haven’t read a lot, but I think that there might have been a change in the way the language sounds. When I studied it more I will comment on it.
“syn + foni → symfony” would be a mystery. But “syn + phoni → symphoni” is natural.
I don’t understand, what do you mean?
Pangnosis = All-Knowledge as you said, All = everything, I think knowledge is everything…(Knowledge is very important to me), also Pan is the name of one of my favourite gods. No I am not a satanist, :-p>, I just like what he symbolises. Athena and Apollon are the rest two.
You are right, you are not going to speak to Plato but what if you speak to me? After all when you learn something learn it all the way.
I meant ‘p’ with an aspiration by ‘ph’ and the changing of n before a labial plosive(the reconstructed pronunciation of φ) into m is natural while there’s no plausible reason it should change into m before a dento-labial fricative ‘f’ as modern pronunciation of φ is.
You are right, you are not going to speak to Plato but what if you speak to me? After all when you learn something learn it all the way
Well, I might learn modern greek. Or I’d just ask you, “Kafes?” 
Geia sas, geia sas,
I meant ‘p’ with an aspiration by ‘ph’ and the changing of n before a labial plosive(the reconstructed pronunciation of f) into m is natural while there’s no plausible reason it should change into m before a dento-labial fricative ‘f’ as modern pronunciation of f is.
That is a good point, but the question is how ph-πχ changed to f-φ?
Since you know ancient Greek the modern one won’t be a difficult task. You might find our slang a bit not easy though.
Are you asking me what Kafes means? Your signature contains the word caffein. After there is a translation on the text. Kafes means coffe.
Xaire, w Pangnosis!
I am one who is certainly very concerned with the sound of ancient Greek, for I study it that I may read the Dramatists and the Lyric Poets, and they (as all poets) created some of their effects through the sounds of their words…
For me, this is especially important as I am interested in the performance of ancient Greek drama and poetry. I’ve been trying out some of the reconstructionist theories out there; I don’t know how accurately they reflect how poetry was recited/sung in ancient Greece, but from an artistic perspective at least, it works out quite nicely.
Anyway, I am glad that you have presented the argument (even if just a part of it) from those who think, contrary to most scholars I’ve read, that ancient Greek sounded more like the modern language. Many of my Greek friends tell me that this is the case, but for the first time I see some of the evidence behind that line of thought!
PS> As for mingshey: when you get to know him you also get to know his caffeine addiction. So ‘kafes’ is the most important Greek word for him - so long as he can ask for coffee, he can’t go wrong…
Χαίρετε,
και πάλι…,
Raya? Rey = King, in spanish and Raya = slave, I think, in Turkish.
Anyway, I love it when it comes to languages, and how can I not be intresting to the ancient Hellenic language as a Greek. In fact it is my favourite, even if I don’t know many thinks yet though I have the advantage of understaning it since Greek is my mother tongue.
As I said I started reading some articles about the phonology of the ancient Hellenic language very recently and I can not have an objective view yet. When I know more and have atleast a temporary conclusion, I say temporary because science improves and we get more and more helpful information each year that make us change our “minds”, I will write a whole article about it and I will let you know.
As for the Greeks that don’t come up with proves, xmmm, what can I say… here, in Greece, there are a lot of nationalists, which is something that I don’t like at all, who they use the greatness of the ancient civilisation to show off Greece and of course make themselves feel better since as you all know Greece is not a leader anymore. I personally like philosophy and the main friend and ally of this science is the γνώσις-gnosis-knowledge which the rest of the sciences provide. So, the most of the Greeks believe the bullshit, sorry people, that those nationlists give them to eat.
Hey mingshey, have you ever tried Greek coffe? Well its origin is Turko-Arabic. You see we inheritted some things from the bloody Turks through their 400 years of conquer. Well? :-p>.
Actually, it’s short for Rayissa, which is a Russian name meaning ‘Heaven’.
In Greek I write it as [size=117]ραῖα[/size]
I must confess all the phonology I know about ancient greek is what I got from books. Greek laguage has its history which I do not know of in its entirety. Assuming that the reconstructed phonology to be correct, the change of phonetic values remain a question, as you said. I think I have read something about it and as far as I remember it (vaguely), it was the influence of languages which was spoken by the nations that invaded Greece.
Greek coffee is what I wish to taste some day. So “kafes” is the first thing to look for if I ever get to Greece. Then, after having a good dope, perhaps a large bookshop full of ancient greek stuffs.
Χαίρετε,
As I have referred to before, the Greek accents-tones reveal, or better indicate, that the dialects spoken at the time of koine had different phonology. That is the reason that Aristarchos, if I am not mistaken, constructed those accents-tones to make foreigners understand how they should pronounce the language. When koine spread through Greece and “covered-eliminate” the dialects then even the Greeks stopped speaking in the way they were doing since then. This is what the most of the sources say.
Another thing is that the etymology of the names of the rules of the ancient Greek grammar show that there might was a change in the sound.
As I said it’s too soon to make a conclusion yet, but if there was ever a change in the sound then I think that we will never be able to speak it with the original sound, since we are only based on assumptions.
Ask for an Ελληνικό καφέ then. As for the books, let me know what you want to see what I can do for you, provide you with some bibliography so you will stay away from the nationalists, :-p>. In fact, if I knew I could research now since I am going to a large bookshop to look for some dictionaries of modern Greek.
Τα λέμε (Which means “we say” actually) = See you. That’s modern Greek.
P.S.: I hope I won’t mislead you from your studies with my modern Greek here, :-p>. I don’t think so, after all ancient Greek is way more fascinating.
Well, I do not know of any language that hasn’t changed dramatically over two thousand years… In Old Chinese there might have been even some inflection. Plus, there might not have been such a thing as tones in Chinese. Kind of the opposite of what happened with Greek. To believe that Modern Greek sounds close to Anceint Greek doesn’t make philological sense whatsoever.
γεια σου. ειμαι η ελενη.
As regards pronunciation, it’s pretty much up to you. Many scholars agree that we should pronounce Ancient Greek according to the pronunciation rules of the modern, alike some of them aprove the italian (read ecclesiastical) pronunciation of Latin. Reconstructed sound values, however, are based on the long and hard work on the comparative grammar (whose greatest part is phonology). I’m not willing to doubt them, for throughout the years of studying Greek and Latin I haven’t come across a single argument that could really harm these hypotheses.
I make this compromise though - texts belonging to ancient period I read according to reconstructed values, koine texts I read with respect to the modern Greek pronuciation system. Same thing with Latin.
As regards coffee, we still call this Turkish heritage “Turkish coffee” instead of nationalize it and call it “properly” - Serbian coffee! 