Dear fellows, I am studying Latin all by my self with an excellent book called “Latin via Ovid”, which I greatly recommend. I could so far translate all the texts (the reading sections of the book), with only one exception, a sentence that is puzzling me notwithstanding all my pains and efforts. Here it is: “Charon eum frusta orantem et flumen Stygem iterum transire desiderantem prohibuit.” I can “feel” its meaning, but not put it into words. Would you please help me? Would someone translate it into English? Much thanks in advance. Valete.
Before requesting help on a translation, please read the thread titled “RULES OF THE LATIN BOARD” and, more importantly, “Asking for Homework/Translation Help”. There are many silly students who would post their homework here and have us do it for them, which is why everyone must do their best to translate before we can give them an answer or help them along. I know that you would never cheat, but we must not make exceptions.
salue Rafael, I agree with Benissimus, but here are some tips. Try to find the verb first. Which word seems to have a verb-like ending? Can you identify other parts of the syntax in this way, without understanding it entirely? What do the words mean? Can you find them in a dictionary? Are there names? What can you gather about this sentence from the context? Give it a try - and we’ll try you help you from there.
Friends, I agree with you. It’s not right asking others to do your homework. But I am not a college or high school student; I am trying to learn Latin alone, because I love to study languages and always wanted to master an ancient and dead language. It’s a kind of hobby. The sentence that is puzzling me is in the text that tells the beautiful story of Orpheus and Eurydice. As you may know, Orpheus disobeyed Pluto’s condition to bring back Eurydice out of Tartarus: not to look back at her till they reach the upper world. Almost at the end of the journey, he eagerly looked at her and she slipped back to Tartarus! Orpheus tries to return to Tartarus. “Charon eum frusta orantem et flumen Stygem iterum transire desiderantem prohibuit.” I know the meaning of the works: Charon (Tartarus’ gatekeeper), eum (pronoun that refers to Orpheus, accusative mood), frusta (adverb, meaning “in vain”), orantem (participle of oro), flumen (river, accusative mood, I guess), Stygem (name of the river), iterum (again), transire (to pass across), desiderantem (participle of desidero), prohibuit (he hindered).
As you can see, I can translate the words, but when I try to translate the sentence my efforts to put words together in a meaningful way have been in vain.
That’s why I’ve asked your help!
frustra orantem “futilely begging” and flumen Stygem iterum transire desiderantem “desiring to cross the river Styx again” are separate phrases which describe eum.
I have a feeling that the second long participial phrase is what hung you up, so it should be much easier now.
Thanks for your help. It’s true that the length of the second participial phrase hung me up. But, after some thought, I realized that what really puzzled me was the fact that eum (him) is the subject of the participial phrases. It seemed weird (at least for me) that a word in the accusative is the subject of a phrase. Then, I tried to translate the sentence with the passive voice and it makes more sense. That’s the result of my effords: “He futilely begging and desiring to cross the river Styx again was however prevented by Charon.”
That is a good passive rendition. It does however seem wrong to me to consider eum as “subject” of the participial phrase. Participles do not have subjects - they are, first and foremost, adjectives, and as you know, adjectives can modify nouns (or pronouns in this case) whether they are in the nominative, accusative, or any other case.
I recommend trying an active rendition if you haven’t already, and if it doesn’t sound right you can expand the participial phrase as a concessive (him, although he was begging…), temporal (him, when he was…), or relative (him who was…).
In order to finish this topic (I think we’ve gone too far for a single sentence!), I give my rendering in the active voice:
“Although futilely begging and desiring to cross the river Styx, Charon prohibited him.”
I have to confess that I prefer the sentence in Latin: it’s more elegant and direct!
I am glad for your tips, which help me a lot. Whenever I’d have any doubts on Latin grammar, I certainly will ask for your help (and other textkit users’ as well).
Please, forgive my awful English for it’s not my native language. I am Portuguese speaker, which helps to understand Latin’s grammar rules, but sometimes (as in the case of participle) makes things harder, since Portuguese grammar is quite different. We have the participle, but in Portuguese the participle is more “adjectival” (I don’t know how to express the idea more clearly) than in Latin. In Portuguese, the participle lost all “verbal” sense and is no more than a simple adjective.
É sempre um prazer saber que há mais brasileiros interessados em um pouco de cultura. Às vezes, precisamos buscar o conhecimento fora do País, devido às parcas opções que dispomos aqui. Graças a Deus aprendi um pouco de inglês, senão minhas alternativas seriam poucas.