Just introducing myself as a new member. Hope the above is correct but I’m at the very beginning.
I’m a long time Greek history lover and have finally decided to tackle the language. One thing for sure is there’s a wealth of varying recommendations where to start, which I think can be an immediate turnoff for someone who overthinks and maybe not as dedicated as they expected.
After a bit of research, I’ve decided on starting with Logos and Polis combination. although, I have the Italian Athenaze version with translated English gloss and grammar as backup.
Logos is yet to be delivered, but I’ve got the teacher volume of polis through the door which I thought would help when the student one arrives in a few days. However, I’m not sure how to use this method as on flick through, I think it’s way beyond a total beginner self-learning. It may be a post logos book and alongside Athenaze.
Anyway, excited to start and happy for any guidance in my strategy and/or beginning phase.
Welcome! Polis for self-learning strikes me as difficult or impossible, although it’s a neat book (the student’s edition anyway). I like using the lessons with my young children. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of Logos.
Yeah, I’m guessing you are correct. It will still be useful down the line.
Logos is similar to Athenaze but I think it starts out easier. I’m new and the rules say don’t link for a while.i have no ties but it’s recommended on the Reddit sidebar. I think it’s by the same people as alexandaros and dialogos.
Any suggestions to replace polis with if I can’t get into it.
I plan to also use the Basil Batrakhos age 9-12 class book free online as a primer first for the very basics
I have now looked at the first little bit of the Logos book. I really like the enthusiasm of it, but the Latinisms are pretty bad. “Ἑλληνικὰ θηρία εἰσίν” in the box on page 21 of the first chapter is an extraordinarily bad sign, imo. This is the most elementary possible error that you would expect from a Latinist writing Greek (and why I checked for it first). That does not bode at all well for the rest of the book.
A fair group of people consider “having learned Greek” to be the state of being able to explain the English in a Loeb translation, or to laboriously work out a translation with a dictionary and a grammar, to be then checked against earlier translations. The constraints of the academic graduate timeline and the academic job market make this the most common sort to find in the Classics department of your local university.
However, others think that it’s being able to communicate effectively in the ancient language, whether in writing or in speech. You’ll find these people on Youtube and the Internet. They are extremely enthusiastic, which is easily the most important component of language learning. But that enthusiasm leads them to produce a lot of learning aids of sometimes doubtful quality.
My personal goal has always been to be able to one day pick up any Greek book I find and to be able to read it without a dictionary, at least if I stared at it long and hard enough. And also to be able to read poetry aloud and hit the rhythm correctly. I suppose I can mostly do both these days. I would one day like to be able to speak and write easily in Attic Greek, in verse and in prose, but that is still a very long ways off.
Getting to where I’m at involved throwing an insane amount of stuff against the wall, and seeing what stuck. As well as avoiding a number of things that I thought were going to be bad habits. And I wasted a lot of time, I know, and still have a tremendous amount to learn.
Beyond goals, a lot depends on a person’s history with languages, maturity, general literacy level, and resources they have available to devote to the study, especially those resources of time, commitment and enthusiasm.
That’s a longwinded way of asking you to talk a bit more about yourself first.
Welcome! I’d be really interested to know how you get on with Logos when it arrives. I’ll probably buy it myself for curiosity’s sake, but I won’t be able to judge how effective it would be for a beginner, so please do share your thoughts.
I will say that, as far as I can tell, the book is not designed for the independent learner. In fact, to judge from the author’s website, the target is Spanish secondary schools. That doesn’t mean it won’t work for you, but I’d expect it to be difficult without a teacher, so ask for help here if anything is unclear!
That’s a fair enough request. I didn’t expect to be asking for advice as was confident in my choices.
Ultimately, like yourself, I’d love to be able to pickup any Ancient Greek text and be able to comprehend what it says.
The route that got me to this destination was knowing that Marcus Aurelius wrote his meditations in Greek (Koine) and I’d love to be able to read that in its natural form. However,i do not wish to limit myself to sub Ancient Greek languages (for want of a better phrase) as I wish to eventually experience plato, Epictetus and the many other philosophers.
I’ve never learnt a second language and nothing has ever interested me from a historical point like Ancient Greece. I’m open to approaching various study forms like grammar translation and comprehension input. There’s arguments across the forums etc for both ways. I had just decided that to start with the approaches I selected looked kinder to a complete beginner (obviously not!)
I’d really like to be in a position one day where I could journal in Greek. I don’t know how realistic that would be!
I’ve spent 10 years studying for my job and feel it’s time, now I’ve finalised those, I focus on something I want to do.
I was under the impression it was a better entry than Athenaze, which I have in Italian but Italian translated to English. I will give logos a stab first and feed back either way.
Thank you, I will be sure to ask for help! It’s a very daunting task
Continuing on in Logos, the θηρία εἰσίν is an extremely isolated issue, although it’s in a great big box on the page. He gets the idiom correct everywhere I’ve seen it in later chapters. I don’t know how I feel about all of the ναί and οὐδαμῶς sentences, but I really like how he has LLPSI’d Greek. Lots of nice pictures and tables. When I get the physical copy, I expect that I’ll use it with my kids.
Hopefully an enjoyable one too! Athenaze was the book I first used to learn Greek (the UK version, with a teacher in a small group) and I do have a soft spot for it. I mean, I liked it, and it gets you straight into reading Greek, but when I look at it now I do wonder why it has so many long sections written in English… By all accounts the Italian version is a big improvement, though.
Thanks, sounds a bit more positive. Everything you say is over my head right now but I’ll be sure to refer back.
I’m sure it will. I’ve enjoyed the kids class workbook so far I’ve referenced above.
I did look for classes but struggled. There is a 9 week one coming up that is online that uses Greek to GCSEs textbooks but I’m not sure how good they are
One other thing, there is an exercise book and a wealth of supplementary material online. ( although in Spanish, but sure that can be worked around with modern tech)
What I will do is give it a stab and I’ll do a future post on progress and my option if it has helped
I’ve been thinking a bit on your question about resources. And I’ll just say that I don’t regret throwing everything that I could against the wall and seeing what stuck.
For me, one important thing has been to avoid getting into the rut of overuse of translations at commentaries. You have to refer to translations at first, but if you don’t wean yourself from that sooner or later, you’ll never be able to do without them. The LSJ is so thorough as to be basically a commentary on every possible usage in anything you are likely to read, and therefore also something that creates unfortunate dependence if used frequently.
The most useful tools for me have all been older textbooks. I like Crosby and Schaeffer’s Introduction to Greek, and I like Burnet’s Greek Rudiments. Also useful are the grammatical sections of Arthur Sidgwick’s composition books. I am a huge W.H.D. Rouse fan, and I like the original versions of Greek Boy and so on better than the updated versions by later teachers.
The best serious grammar for a beginner, by a long shot, is Goodwin. Nothing matches his section on metre for a beginner. The most useful learning grammar and dictionary are Morwood’s. Anything that has no explanation in Morwood’s grammar, or a meaning not in his dictionary, can safely be skipped until later. Learning using a concise dictionary like Morwood’s has all sorts of advantages for a learner, and is sure proof against becoming a gloss-hunting automaton.
The best practice method I’ve ever run across is Roger Ascham’s double translation method from a model book. Start with Xenophon or Plato, and early on get into the habit of translating short bits to English, and then translating them back to Greek the next day. If you use Crosby and Schaeffer, you’ll have a bunch of ready made material for this.
If you have a language partner of some kind, you stand a much better chance of keeping your enthusiasm up than if you do not have one.
Anyway, that’s what I’ve got. If you succeed at it, I expect that you’ll wind up with your own list.
I’m English. If this is reference The Italian Atheneze, it’s because I have a copy with translated English gloss and grammar inserts.
I’m just a beginner who’s got a bit confused on where to start. I’ve seen your other reply and will respond. I’m for now working on the alphabet and pronunciation
Logos came in the mail the other week, but I haven’t been able to get much time with it as my kids have been hogging it and looking at all of the nifty pictures.
