Thucydides 1.22

Greek Learning Greek
1

This is my first experience with Thucydides. The word that comes to mind is impenetrable. Please don’t tell to go away and read something easier and come back later when I’ve gained more experience. I’ve worked though the Reading Greek course and am very pleased with my progress. Now I’m on The Intellectual Revolution. Having completed the selections of Medeia, my next author is Thucydides. I’ve looked at the commentaries in Perseus and I find them most helpful. I can’t imagine anyone being able to read Thucydides at sight without some help from the giants who have gone before us. Here are my unanswered questions:

τὰ δ᾽ ἔργα τῶν πραχθέντων ἐν τῷ πολέμῳ οὐκ ἐκ τοῦ παρατυχόντος πυνθανόμενος ἠξίωσα γράφειν, οὐδ᾽ ὡς ἐμοὶ ἐδόκει, ἀλλ᾽ οἷς τε αὐτὸς παρῆν καὶ παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ὅσον δυνατὸν ἀκριβείᾳ περὶ ἑκάστου ἐπεξελθών. [3] ἐπιπόνως δὲ ηὑρίσκετο, διότι οἱ παρόντες τοῖς ἔργοις ἑκάστοις οὐ ταὐτὰ περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν ἔλεγον, ἀλλ᾽ ὡς ἑκατέρων τις εὐνοίας ἢ μνήμης ἔχοι. [4] καὶ ἐς μὲν ἀκρόασιν ἴσως τὸ μὴ μυθῶδες αὐτῶν ἀτερπέστερον φανεῖται: ὅσοι δὲ βουλήσονται τῶν τε γενομένων τὸ σαφὲς σκοπεῖν καὶ τῶν μελλόντων ποτὲ αὖθις κατὰ τὸ ἀνθρώπινον τοιούτων καὶ παραπλησίων ἔσεσθαι, ὠφέλιμα κρίνειν αὐτὰ ἀρκούντως ἕξει.

What kind of dative is ἀκριβείᾳ? What does the infinitive ἔσεσθαι go with? What other word does it depend on? I would be grateful for any help.

2

τὰ δ᾽ ἔργα τῶν πραχθέντων ἐν τῷ πολέμῳ οὐκ ἐκ τοῦ παρατυχόντος πυνθανόμενος ἠξίωσα γράφειν, οὐδ᾽ ὡς ἐμοὶ ἐδόκει, ἀλλ᾽ οἷς τε αὐτὸς παρῆν καὶ παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ὅσον δυνατὸν ἀκριβείᾳ περὶ ἑκάστου ἐπεξελθών. [3] ἐπιπόνως δὲ ηὑρίσκετο, διότι οἱ παρόντες τοῖς ἔργοις ἑκάστοις οὐ ταὐτὰ περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν ἔλεγον, ἀλλ᾽ ὡς ἑκατέρων τις εὐνοίας ἢ μνήμης ἔχοι. [4] καὶ ἐς μὲν ἀκρόασιν ἴσως τὸ μὴ μυθῶδες αὐτῶν ἀτερπέστερον φανεῖται: ὅσοι δὲ βουλήσονται τῶν τε γενομένων τὸ σαφὲς σκοπεῖν καὶ τῶν μελλόντων ποτὲ αὖθις κατὰ τὸ ἀνθρώπινον τοιούτων καὶ παραπλησίων ἔσεσθαι, ὠφέλιμα κρίνειν αὐτὰ ἀρκούντως ἕξει.

My try without giant help. It’s difficult, but we don’t need to exaggerate into something scary. Some errors, since I’m not using a dictionary and haven’t read up to 1.22 yet, so don’t know the context:

I did not think it worthwhile to write the deeds of the actors in the war from what I chanced to learn out of what happened around me, nor whatever way it seemed to me, but by using both what I was myself present for and going through the rest as much as I was able with accuracy about each. It was found to be a great work, because those present for the deeds of each actor were not saying the same things about them, but as if any given person may hold a thought or memory of each actor. And going into hearsay, perhaps what is not told of oneselves may seem less truthful, but whoever will want to look into the reality of what happened, and to see what will be of what will also happen some time in the future of this sort and frequent repetition according to human nature, will have useful matter to sufficiently judge.

As you see, I took ἀκριβείᾳ as instrumental, and took ἔσεσθαι (and the whole καὶ branch) as governed by σκοπεῖν. Maybe I’m write, maybe I’m wrong, but I would be surprised if the above isn’t the general gist and good enough to go on through Thucydides with for a first read. To be revisited by a closer read later, with good scholarly resources, if I feel like it at some point.

3

A few thoughts and suggestions:

I think Joel’s explanation of ἔσεσθαι is right.

τῶν πραχθέντων – passive, not “the actors”

ἐκ τοῦ παρατυχόντος – maybe could be translated “haphazardly”. Just “from what I chanced upon,” maybe, but not “what I chanced to learn”, since he’s rejecting this material, insisting on his diligence in researching the events, and he doesn’t put himself into the picture with this expression. Maybe “from what happened to be around.”

οἷς τε αὐτὸς παρῆν καὶ παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ὅσον δυνατὸν ἀκριβείᾳ – I think this is parallel to [τοῖς] οἷς τε αὐτὸς παρῆν, contrasting what he witnessed himself with what he learned from others: “as much as possible with accuracy from others”. EDIT: see below.

ἐπιπονῶς – with great difficulty

οἱ παρόντες τοῖς ἔργοις ἑκάστοις – those who were present at each of the events.

ἑκατέρων τις εὐνοίας ἢ μνήμης ἔχοι – ἑκατέρων means specifically “each of two”, i.e., here “both sides” and modifies εὐνοίας: bias in favor of one side or the other.

καὶ ἐς μὲν ἀκρόασιν ἴσως τὸ μὴ μυθῶδες αὐτῶν ἀτερπέστερον φανεῖται – I understand τὸ μὴ μυθῶδες to mean something like “not an entertaining story”. “And maybe the lack of the entertainment value of a good story will seem less agreeable to listen to”. I think he’s taking a swipe at Herodotus.

ὠφέλιμα κρίνειν αὐτὰ ἀρκούντως ἕξει – I take ἀρκούντως with ἕξει and κρίνειν αὐτὰ as epexigetical to ἀρκούντως ἕξει. I think the idea is that Thucydides account will be adequate as a basis for forming a judgment, rather than that the judgment itself be adequate for some purpose. I also think ἀρκούντως ἕξει means “will be sufficient” (ἕξει + adverb). This would leave the relative clause ὅσοι . . . . etc. somewhat dangling, but I think you could supply something like τουτοῖς before ὠφέλιμα. But I think reasonable minds could differ on these points.

EDIT: mwh showed I’m wrong about οἷς τε αὐτὸς παρῆν καὶ παρὰ τῶν ἄλλων ὅσον δυνατὸν ἀκριβείᾳ διεξελθῶν. I think καὶ τῶν ἄλλων is parallel to οἷς τε αὐτὸς παρῆν and ὅσον δυνατὸν ἀκριβείᾳ διεξελθῶν is a unit – “going through/discussing/relating thoroughly with accuracy as much as possible [those things] at which I was present and [what came] from others.”

4

Hi Charlie,
To your questions:
ακριβείᾳ more or less like ακριβῶς, with επεξελθών.
ἔσεσθαι dep. on μελλόντων.
The lengthy τῶν μελλόντων ποτὲ αὖθις κατὰ τὸ ἀνθρώπινον τοιούτων καὶ παραπλησίων ἔσεσθαι is in syntactical parallel with τῶν τε γενομένων, both dep. on το σαφές. Typical Thucydidean imbalance.

I haven’t looked at Joel’s.

5

Thank you all.