Χαίρετε!
The first part of Thrasymachus XI , line 5, is throwing a curve at me. I am not sure if φιλήσω is the future of φίλεω and means I want to like or kiss? Plus I am wondering if ἥ is a relative pronoun. I find no precedent in the sentence. Since the story is about something feminine, maybe that is the precedent, or maybe ἥ is just a definite article? It seems like it should be a relative pronoun with the accent mark. /shrug
I don’t have the book, so I can’t say, but I can tell you that φιλήσω in itself can be either future (indicative) or aorist subjunctive. Give us the context and we’ll be able to help.
τοῦτον γὰρ τὸν μῦθον μᾶλλον φιλήσω ἢ τοὺς ἄλλους
I will enjoy this story more than the others
I should have written antecedent rather than precedent. Sorry. Is "ἢ " a relative pronoun? 'μῦθον " is masculine, so I know it cannot be referring to that. Is it feminine because the story is about a bunch of sisters?
ἤ is “than”, after the comparative word μᾶλλον, “more”
The relative pronoun has a rough breathing. “Than” (ἤ) has a smooth breathing.
Thank you. I could not tell from the print if it was rough or smooth breathing. I do not have the best eyes anymore.
Although a verb chart prefers the middle/passive form of the future, should I translate “βλέψομεν” as the 1st person plural future of βλέπω"? The verb chart I see prefers the passive/middle form for “βλέπω,” unless I am thinking of the wrong verb?
Yes, the middle form (βλέψομαι) is regularly used for the future, as with a good number of other verbs too. βλέψω is a later form. They have the same meaning.
Line 35 has the sentence ἐκέλευσάς με σιγῶντα ἀκούειν. I am wondering if σιγῶντα is a participle? I think a neuter one? I think the meaning has to do with Thrasymachus being commanded to listen in silence, but I am uncertain how to translate this.
Not neuter, but masculine and agreeing with με
There’s a similar line in the Republic book I–
ἐκέλευσε δραμόντα τὸν παῖδα <…> κελεῦσαι
he ordered the slave to run (participle) and order <him to …>
On page 39 the end of line 51 to line 53 reads τὰς γὰρ κεφαλὰς τὰς τῶν ἀνδρῶν τῆς νυκτὸς ἀπέκοψαν. I know that a definite article occasionally repeats itself, but I do not know what is going on here. I know at least one definite article τὰς goes with κεφαλὰς. With just one, I would translate the sentence "They cut off the heads of the men (or husbands) at night. Is the second referring to something else?
τὰς κεφαλὰς τὰς τῶν ἀνδρῶν τῆς νυκτὸς ἀπέκοψαν. The τὰς before τῶν ἀνδρῶν tells us that τῶν ἀνδρῶν goes with τὰς κεφαλάς. Otherwise τῶν ἀνδρῶν would be floating free with nothing to anchor it. English depends on word order to tell us what goes with what (so “the heads of the men” in English is unambiguous), but word order in Greek is more flexible, and that repeated τὰς is needed to show that τὰς κεφαλὰς and τῶν ἀνδρῶν go together. That’s the way Greek works, for the sake of syntactical clarity.
(τῆς νυκτός, by contrast, stands by itself without being tied to any other noun. So τῶν ἀνδρῶν τῆς νυκτὸς doesn’t mean “of the men of the night.” That would be τῶν ἀνδρῶν τῶν τῆς νυκτός, repeating the definite article of τῶν ἀνδρῶν.)
Does this help?
It sure does. Thank you very much. I am learning a lot from this.
Another way of tying τῶν ἀνδρῶν to τὰς κεφαλὰς is to sandwich it within τὰς κεφαλάς.
So you can say either
τὰς κεφαλὰς τὰς τῶν ἀνδρῶν (repeating the article)
or
τὰς τῶν ἀνδρῶν κεφαλὰς (enclosing the genitive).
Either way makes it clear that it’s “the men’s heads” you’re talking about.
I hope that people are not getting tired about me asking about this story, but I do have a question about the first sentence in line 73: διότι οὐκ ἔξεσται αὐταῖς τοῦτο ποιεῖν. I think I know what the words mean individually: διότι (because) οὐκ (not) ἔξεσται (will be permitted) αὐταῖς (for them? to them?) τοῦτο (this) ποιεῖν (to do). But I do not know if τοῦτο, which is neuter, is referring to the water or to the pouring of the water? Perhaps τοῦτο ποιεῖν should be translated doing this? Perhaps something else?
I’ve just taken a look at the book. Thrasymachus asks why they won’t look for some other bowl (ἀλλὰ διὰ τί οὐ ζητήσουσιν ἄλλον τινὰ κρατῆρα;—one that doesn’t continually leak, we understand), to which Aiakos replies διότι οὐκ ἔξεσται αὐταῖς τοῦτο ποιεῖν (“Because it won’t be permitted them to do so" [lit. to do this]; dative—here αὐταῖς—is regular with ἔξεστιν)· οὐ γὰρ ἅλις χρόνου ἕξουσιν (“for they won’t have enough time,” lit. enough of time).