What’s the etymology of the suffix -ides,
like in names e.g. Aristides, Archimides, Euclides, or even the Dorian Leonidas?
(I hope am correct saying -idas is another form of -ides…)
I don’t know better than you do, but I guess it could be εἴδος.
edit:
Well, but Smyth, 845 and Goodwin , 846 says its patronymic -da/-d.
Though I doubt )αρχιμήδης(vaguely, a chief counselor 
) and )ευκλείδης(more vaguely, good collar-bones ) are the case?
Surely the root is related to κλέος, κλε ‐ ιδ ‐
The suffix -ides means “son or descendant of”. So, for example in the Iliad Atreides “son of Atreus” is referred to Agamemnon, or Peleides “son of Peleus” to Achilles. But the suffix properly is only -ides/-idas in Doric. Some names as Archimedes have a different suffix, in this case related to the verb medomai “to care about”.
Well that is what I thought always, that it comes from eidos, but than again I read all the time that the meaning is “son of”, and this creates a confusion in me. The primary question is how -ides can be derived to mean “son of”.
The fundamental meaning of [size=150]εἶδος[/size] is the ‘look’ of a thing, including one’s bodily appearance.
Like father, like son.
Cordially,
Paul
Is there any reason to believe the etymology of this derivational affix is recoverable?
I spent a little time looking for literature on this. I don’t believe there is any agreement about how these endings come to mean “son of.” But…
Yes.
We can say, though, that the ‐ιδης ending is secondary, and the original is simply ‐δης. No relationship to εἶδος is possible.
I am always charmed by how a simple question about Greek morphology or syntax can lead to such interesting discoveries. So, thank you ThomasGR. 
Now, I never said that the suffix [size=150]‐ιδης[/size] was derived from [size=150]εἶδος[/size]. All I meant to suggest was that if it were so derived, the semantic connection between ‘look, appearance’ and ‘son of’ was obvious.
My own research reveals the following. It is the general consensus among Greek scholars that the patronymic suffix [size=150]‐ιδας, ‐ιδης[/size] consists of two suffixes: [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size] , believed to be pre-Greek, and [size=150]‐ας[/size], of murkier origins but known to denote male persons.
Recent work, framed by the question ‘how does x-[size=150]ιδας[/size] come to mean “son of x”’?, has further developed these ideas.
It says that [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size] denotes a clan or family name. This name can indicate not only a group of people, but also the land they inhabit.
(Digression: an interesting semantic parallel can be found in the Mycenaean da-mo = δᾶμος whence δῆμος. This word means both a land and its people. It comes from δαίομαι which means ‘to divide for the purpose of distributing, sharing’. cf. Palmer, “The Interpretation of Mycenaean Greek Texts”)
x[size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size], where ‘x’ is a personal name, can mean two things:
- land/tribe
- a female person of land/tribe
[size=150]‐α‐[/size] may be added after this suffix to indicate a male member of the tribe. And so we have:
x[size=150]‐ιδ‐α[/size] meaning the male member of a land/tribe.
Apparently, suffixes often undergo a kind of semantic narrowing. The meaning of [size=150]‐ιδας[/size] has moved from ‘man of clan x’, to ‘descendant of x’, and finally to ‘son of x’.
Cordially,
Paul
Huh. What are the sources you’re using? I first checked Smyth, and then saw a paper on dental stems in Greek via JSTOR (which I cannot now reach). Neither is terribly modern, but I remain a little suspicious of ‐ιδ‐ being primary, since there are also of patronymics in ‐αδης or even just ‐δης.
Having -da- primary seems the more parsimonious etymology. But I need to see what you’ve been reading.
Paul’s post made me think. We have also the archaic form δη (dh) for earth, like in goddess Demetra, and amybe it was also used as a suffix -δη to denote some one coming from a specific land, like in English -lander (Finlander). I wonder if -δης can have something to do with δη (earth).
I was thinking along the same lines. My thoughts about this etymology are split between [size=150]‐δα‐[/size] and [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size] (as discussed above).
As you rightly say, [size=150]‐δα‐[/size] contributes to Demeter (Da-Mater). It is also a suffix in Poseidon (Posei-Das, ‘master of the earth’).
But if we assert this [size=150]‐δα‐[/size] as the element that participates in patronymic suffixes, then we must argue against considerable scholarship on the role of the suffix [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size]. A possible starting point for such an argument would be the significance of [size=150]δα‐[/size] in [size=150]δᾶμος[/size], i.e., that it means not just land but the clan or people of a land. We would, I suppose, have to account for a complex like [size=150]‐ι‐δας[/size].
As for the suffix [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size], although the works I’ve consulted make no mention of its relationship to [size=150]ἴδιος[/size], I find it hard to believe that they are not related. The latter commonly means ‘private, personal’. A more radical statement of its meaning is ‘the peculiar quality or character that makes something different or unique’. These meanings seem to me to comport nicely with the sense of [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size] as denoting a clan or family.
Finally, I cannot resist again introducing [size=150]εἶδος[/size] into the etymological murk. In his discussion of this word Chantraine points out a derivative [size=150]εἰδικός[/size] which means ‘special, specific’ as opposed to ‘general’. He relates this to [size=150]ἰδικός[/size] a derivative of [size=150]ἴδιος[/size]. [size=150]ἰδικός[/size] means ‘specific character, particularity, individuality’. So…the argument goes like this:
a. the derivatives [size=150]ἰδικός[/size] and [size=150]εἰδικός[/size] have nearly identical meanings
b. the parent word of one of these derivatives, [size=150]ἴδιος[/size], may be related to the same [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size] that means ‘clan, family’ and contributes to the patronymic suffix
c. therefore the other parent word, [size=150]εἶδος[/size] might also be so related.
To answer Will’s question, current thinking on the role of the [size=150]‐ιδ‐[/size] suffix goes back to a 1975 work by a German named Meier. The latest work is that of Keurentjes writing in Mnemosyne, 1997.
Cordially,
Paul