modus.irrealis
I apologize for not responding to your posts. My internet connection was down in the area and we just got it up and running.
GTM
There’s no need to apologize. I just hope we keep the discussion going 
.
modus.irrealis
You sure posted a few questions. Maybe we should attempt to work through this one, verse by verse, if that is possible.
Question you asked:
- Do τεκνία (= παιδία?), πατέρες and νεανίσκοι refer to different people or to the same people but in different functions? In either case, the three labels aren’t ordered by age, so why this ordering? I thought that you maybe have τεκνία ~ sins forgiven (~ baptized) >>> πατέρες ~ knowledge of God (~ chrism?) >>> νεανίσκοι ~ victorious over Satan (~ ?) as sort of a progression in faith. But what do the labels mean?
12 γράφω ὑμῖν, τεκνία, ὅτι ἀφέωνται ὑμῖν αἱ ἁμαρτίαι διὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ.
I lean towards the idea that the shift in use from παιδία to τεκνία might suggest new Christians. This is just an idea that I am throwing out there just to get some response. Here is the reason for this idea. ἀφέωνται in verse 12 is in the perfect tense which seems to carry a different idea from that of 1 John 1:9. 1 John 1:9 speaks of continual forgiveness. That isn’t the case in 2:12. He seems to focus more on the act of forgiveness which seems to speak of conversion. I may be wrong but hey it is a starting point.
GTM
I am not sure who to contact, but I know a Gentleman who has attempted to join this forum twice and hasn’t heard back . Who do I speak with on this matter?
GTM
Probably William Annis.
Bert
Thank You for your post
GTM
modus.irrealis
I have been thinking about your question.
Do τεκνία (= παιδία?)
What are your thoughts on that? Do you sense that the whole Christian community was being addressed here including more mature or older children?
GTM
He does use both τεκνία and παιδία to address his readers elsewhere in the letter, so I think the terms can be applied to the entire community, although I’m not sure if they do so in these verses here.
About your earlier post, I think you’re right about the use of the perfect there, but do you think he’s addressing just converts there or is he addressing everyone in their functions of having been converts?
modus.irrealis
you asked:
About your earlier post, I think you’re right about the use of the perfect there, but do you think he’s addressing just converts there or is he addressing everyone in their functions of having been converts?
As I ponder verse 12
12 Γράφω ὑμῖν, τεκνία, ὅτι ἀφέωνται ὑμῖν αἱ ἁμαρτίαι διὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ.
that is a good question. Before I attempt to answer it, I might need some clarification from you. Could you define function as you have presented it in this question?
GTM
modus.irrealis
I think that I see a theme in these verses (12-14)
Is it possible that in verse 12 John is speaking of new Christians and not necessarily childern?
here is my thought
Γράφω ὑμῖν, τεκνία, ὅτι ἀφέωνται ὑμῖν αἱ ἁμαρτίαι διὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ.
As baby Christians we need to be reminded that it is by His name and His only that we are saves. Also as I have already mentioned , there is the use of the perfect tense for ἀφέωνται which clerly points to the instantaneous act of salvation.
In verse 13 we see
13 Γράφω ὑμῖν, πατέρες, ὅτι ἐγνώκατε τὸν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς.
This verse points to the idea that whoever this group is, they have ἐγνώκατε τὸν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς.
Now if I were to take a guess at this I might conclude that it takes years of walking with Him to really know Him. Maybe I am wrong here.
Γράφω ὑμῖν, νεανίσκοι, ὅτι νενικήκατε τὸν πονηρόν
Who is the one that usually has the most difficulty with τὸν πονηρόν?
Young men are faced with many worldly temptations, more so than an old man.
Well lets see if anyone throws rocks at me for this one. 
GTM
What I mean is not so much an official function but simply an aspect of being part of the community. That’s probably not any clearer, but what I’m trying to get at is can someone be a τεκνίον and a πατήρ at the same time or are they necessarily one or the other.
I think so – at least I’ve understood it as being more metaphorical and not referring literally to age.
Who is the one that usually has the most difficulty with τὸν πονηρόν?
Young men are faced with many worldly temptations, more so than an old man.
I see what you’re saying but it seems odd then that the order would not go τεκνία, νεανίσκοι, πατέρες. Maybe I’m putting too much emphasis on the order but I want to read νεανίσκοι as being the next step after πατέρες.
modus.irrealis
You said:
I see what you’re saying but it seems odd then that the order would not go τεκνία, νεανίσκοι, πατέρες. Maybe I’m putting too much emphasis on the order but I want to read νεανίσκοι as being the next step after πατέρες.
That is probably a valid point. It would seem that what you suggested would be the logical succession. I think we should dig into this one a little more. maybe there is some Greek construction that would give us clues.
GTM
I apologise for not sending any replies until now, but I have been rather busy… 
However, I have just read the messages needed to pick it up from here, so I hope I can keep up with you!
after reading your comments plus the text (1 John 2: 12-14), here is what I have found:
a) according to the grammars, “oti” can be either a conjunction introducing the subjective opinion of the writer; “because, for, since”; or a marker for direct discourse (direct speech).
b) (i) in the English NIV translation we find “because”
(ii) in the Latin translation we have “quia/quoniam” = because
(iii) in the Catalan translation we find that they have chosen to take “oti” as a direct discourse marker.
WHEN READING THE DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS, I CAN FIND DIFFERENCES…AT LEAST IN THE EFFECT ON TH READER…
c) as for the different age groups referred to in the text, the writer may be encouraging each group with facts that they should bear in mind…I think that a Christian, regardless of “spiritual/non-spiritual age”, has:
- been forgiven of their sins.
- known God from the beginning.
- overcome the evil one.
Perhaps each group needs to be reminded of these aspects in the christian life…
cheers
sidney
The NET (www.bible.org) takes it as direct discourse. Doesn’t it make more sense that way as well? I am writing that your sins have been forgiven, rather than, I am writing because your sins have been forgiven.?
I think so too, Bert! 
sid4greek
you said:
as for the different age groups referred to in the text, the writer may be encouraging each group with facts that they should bear in mind…I think that a Christian, regardless of “spiritual/non-spiritual age”, has:
- been forgiven of their sins.
- known God from the beginning.
- overcome the evil one.
I think that you have made a very good point.
Thank You.
GTM
I’ve been reading 1 John 15-18 and I have a question:
what had the writer in mind when talking about “the antichrist” (verse 18)? the writer seems to distinguish between “the antichrist” and “many antichrists” of a lesser kind…
cheers
sid4greek
I’ve been reading 1 John 15-18 and I have a question:
what had the writer in mind when talking about “the antichrist” (verse 18)? the writer seems to distinguish between “the antichrist” and “many antichrists” of a lesser kind…
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
Παιδία, ἐσχάτη ὥρα ἐστίν καὶ καθὼς ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἀντίχριστος ἔρχεται καὶ νῦν ἀντίχριστοι πολλοὶ γεγόνασιν, ὅθεν γινώσκομεν ὅτι ἐσχάτη ὥρα ἐστίν.
I believe that the key is in the phrase ἐσχάτη ὥρα ἐστίν which speaks of tumultuous times prior to the coming of the Anti Christ.
Those who reject Christ are in a real sense Anti Christs. I believe that through out Christian history they existed and are recognizable by life style.
GTM