Some more from Orberg XLIV

Fit fuga regis comitum. Ipse prope exsanguis, cum sine regio comitatu domum se reciperet, ab iis qui missi ab Tarquinio fugientem consecuti erant interficitur. Creditur — quia non abhorret a cetero scelere — admonitu Tulliae id factum. Carpento certe (id quod satis constat) in forum invecta evocavit virum e Curia 'regem’que prima appellavit. Ex tanto tumultu cum se domum reciperet pervenissetque ad summum Cyprium vicum , restitit pavidus is qui iumenta agebat iacentemque dominae Servium trucidatum ostendit! Foedum inhumanumque inde traditur scelus: Tullia per patris corpus carpentum egisse fertur, partemque sanguinis ac caedis paternae cruento vehiculo tulisse ad Penates suos virique sui!

Servius is killed after heading home.

Carpento certe (id quod satis constat) in forum invecta = in satis constat - it is been clearly established?

Ex tanto tumultu cum se domum reciperet pervenissetque ad summum Cyprium vicum, restitit pavidus is qui iumenta agebat iacentemque dominae Servium trucidatum ostendit!

When she reached the top of the vicus Cyprius - restitit pavidus - There was one [a man] standing terrified, who was driving horses and [who] showed to the lady the bloodied Servius thrown [down].

I’m not sure about this but i can’t figure out whether she simply comes across a man driving horses who happens to point out the body of Servius [in the street?] or whether the man is driving horses that are carrying Servius’ body on a cart - I think the former, because…


Foedum inhumanumque inde traditur scelus: Tullia per patris corpus carpentum egisse fertur, partemque sanguinis ac caedis paternae cruento vehiculo tulisse ad Penates suos virique sui!

A terrible and inhuman story is then told: Tullia, it is said [fertur] ordered [egisse] the body of her father to be removed [egisse - premumably by the man driving the horses?] by cart and took [tulisse] part of the blood and paternal flesh home to her husband in the gory chariot.

Hi pmda,

Yes, it serves as contrast to the creditur above, “it is believed that she did this and that (so we are not sure that she actually did), but what is clearly established is that…”.

Restitit does not exactly mean “to stand” but “to stop”, the man who was driving her cart stopped and showed her the body of her father. is qui is important here.

Not sure about egisse meaning “to order”, ago’s basic meanings are “to move sth./to put in motion”. Carpentum is Acc. so can not mean “by cart”, and patris corpus is preceded by the preposition per “through/across” so it cannot be the object.
So, “it is said that she moved/led/drove the cart through/across her father’s body.”

cruento vehiculo means I guess not that she carried blood “in” the chariot, but rather that there was blood all over the wheels.

in satis constat - it is been clearly established?

Maybe its more “agreed” than “established”. Satis is enough, sufficiently. “Its agreed sufficiently” is perhaps less strong than “its clearly established”

Ex tanto tumultu cum se domum reciperet pervenissetque ad summum Cyprium vicum, restitit pavidus is qui iumenta agebat iacentemque dominae Servium trucidatum ostendit!

When she reached the top of the vicus Cyprius - restitit pavidus - There was one [a man] standing terrified, who was driving horses and [who] showed to the lady the bloodied Servius thrown [down].

When Tullia goes to the forum she is not driving the chariot someone is bringing her (in forum invecta). So “restitit pavidus is qui iumenta agebat” the terrified (pavidus) man (is) who (qui) was driving (the horses) pointed out to his mistress the slaughtered Servius as he lay (on the ground).

edit: somehow I forgot restitit here but Shenoute has covered it

Foedum inhumanumque inde traditur scelus: Tullia per patris corpus carpentum egisse fertur, partemque sanguinis ac caedis paternae cruento vehiculo tulisse ad Penates suos virique sui!

Tulia is said “carpentum egisse” to have driven the chariot “per patris corpus” over the body of (her) father.

“tulisse ad Penates suos virique sui” carried to her own and her husband’s household gods.

Portion might be better than part.

I hadnt seen Shenoute’s helpful response before I posted.

He is right on cruento vehiculo. To just expand on “ad Penates” it is clearly metonymy for home but “household gods” is used by Livy to underline Tullia’s transgressive behaviour in mutilating her father’s body. An example of where translation rather loses the point being made, unless you add a footnote, which destroys the artistry!

Sheoute and Seneca have pretty much nailed this for you, but one small point:

Foedum inhumanumque inde traditur scelus – “a terrible and inhuman crime is then handed down” i.e., tradition then tells of a terrible and inhuman crime.

Not a small point! Scelus gives the clear signal about how to read this passage. Maybe foedum is stronger than “terrible” more loathsome and disgusting?

Many thanks to you all. I had read the meaning as ‘by means of the cart’ by taking per + accusative carpentum.

Also..failing to realise that the man driving her chariot / cart was driving her chariot / cart - !

“Carriage” is probably a better word for carpentum. “Chariot” conjures up images of, well, Ben Hur. Surely women didn’t dash around Rome in that kind of vehicle, i.e. a horse-drawn single-occupancy chariot, but I doubt even men did either. “Chariots” of that type were probably seen more or less exclusively at the racetrack. The very rich rode in litters borne by slaves. Some traveled on mules, especially over long distances, or in mule-drawn carriages or coaches of some sort. Most walked.

But Tullia wouldn’t be caught dead driving her own carriage. She was a haughty princess, and women in general didn’t do that sort of thing.

I thought this was interesting http://www.albanecar.es/donde-estara-mi-carro/