Simple, GNT type sentences composed in Koine

τοὺς ἐν Κυρίῳ φίλους ἁπάζομαι Μᾶρκος.

καλόν ἐστιν. Very well done. Despite a few minor mistakes, I understood 100% of it. I also agree with the underlying meaning of the story.

Following ἑκηβόλος’ lead, I rewrite the story, taking the point of view of ὁ διδάσκολος. I correct some of the minor mistakes and make a few other minor changes.

Διδάσκαλος ἤμην. ἐν δὲ σαπρῷ νοΐ τὰς γραφὰς ἤμην ἀναγιγνώσκων. καὶ καθ’ ἡμέραν οὕτως ἐποίησα ὥστε ἀκατάστατον τὸ πνεῦμά μοῦ ἐγένετο. ὅσον δὲ χρόνον αὐτὰς ἀνεγίνωσκον, τὸ πνεῦμά μου ἀσθενὲς ἐγένετο μᾶλλον ἢ ἰσχυρόν.

Ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν μιᾷ τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐν τῷ με ἀναγνῶναι, κρατήσας ὁ πατήρ μου τὸ βιβλίον τὸ ἅγιον ἀπὸ τῶν χειρῶν μου, ἔβαλεν αὐτὸ ἐν τῷ πυρί. θαυμάζων δ’ εἶπον, “πάτερ, οὐ σέβῃ σύγε τὸ βιβλίον?” ἀπεκρίθη δ’ ὁ πατήρ καὶ εἶπεν ἐμοί, “Ἄφρων, ὅτι σέβομαι τὸ βιβλίον ἐξειλάμην σε ἐξ αὐτοῦ. σὺ γὰρ ἐπίμπρης τὴν ψυχήν σου ἐν αὐτῷ.”

(νῦν δὲ μόνον ἐν τῷ ἁγίῳ πνεύματι τὰς γραφὰς ἀναγιγνώσκω ἔγωγε.)

Keep writing these, Isaac. I am finding it pedagogically helpful. ἴθι πολλὰ χαίρων.

Nice retelling Markos, helps me with internalization. I notice that the instructor says that he “was” ( past tense, Διδάσκαλος ἤμην) one, in a terse opening statement..That piqued my interest as a reader and got me to wonder about his lot even after I had finished reading the story. Nice use of a simple tense at the right place and time. One does not always need to use intricate words and word structures to write powerfully.

Thanks again,

Here’s something else I composed:

βάτραχος τις ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ ἔλειξεν ἑρπετόν ὃ κοιμώμενον ἐπ’ ανθει καὶ κατέπιεν αὐτὸ. καὶ πεπληρωμένος πολλῷ ὕβρει, ἀνεφώνησεν κραυγῇ μεγάλῃ καὶ εἶπεν, σβέννυμι ψυχὴν ὁσάκις ἐὰν θέλω.

ἔτι αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος, ἰδοὺ κάμηλος ἐπατησεν ἐπ’ αὐτόν, ἐξαπίνης ἀποκτείνουσα αὐτόν.

A certain frog in the field licked an insect which was sleeping on a flower and swallowed it. And being filled with pride, he cried out in a loud voice and said, “ I snuff out life as often as I will.”

While he was yet speaking, a camel trampled on him, killing him without notice.

ὁ πρόλογος.
ἀνατέλλοντος τοῦ σειρίου ἐξεπορεύσατο γυρῖνος ἐκ τοῦ ᾤου αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐνῴκησεν ἐν μέσῳ τῶν τοῦ Νείλου καλάμων. διαγένοντος δὲ χρώνου ὀλίγου πλημμυρὶς ἐγένετο. μετὰ ταῦτα, ξηρανθείσης δὲ τῆς γῆς ἐγένετο ὁ γυρῖνος βάτραχος. κατήγαγων ἀπὸ τοῦ ὕδατος ὑπήντησεν ἀκρίδα. ἐρεθίζων δὲ τὴν ἀκρίδα ὁ βάτραχος εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὅτι ἡ φωνή μου ἔοικε σύριγγι, ἀλλὰ ἡ φωνή σου τυμπάνῳ. ἡ δὲ ἔφη ἀληθὲς λέγεις. ὁ δὲ βάτραχος ἀπήντησεν αὐτῷ λέγων ὅτι ὅσον ᾠδικοτέρα τυμπάνων συρίγγες, τοσοῦτον μείζονες ἀκρίδων βάτραχοι. εἶτα νυκτὼρ φεγγούσης τῆς σελήνης εἶδεν ὁ βάτραχος ἑρπετὸν κοιμᾶσθαι ..,

εκηβολε, That’s quite close to being Greek (and much closer than poor Isaac’s). Some corrections would bring it closer.
(Your text below, with mistakes in bold. Corrections below that.)

ἀνατέλλοντος τοῦ σειρίου ἐξεπορεύσατο γυρῖνος ἐκ τοῦ ᾤου αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐνῴκησεν ἐν μέσῳ τῶν τοῦ Νείλου καλάμων. διαγένοντος δὲ χρώνου ὀλίγου πλημμυρὶς ἐγένετο. μετὰ ταῦτα, ξηρανθείσης δὲ τῆς γῆς ἐγένετο ὁ γυρῖνος βάτραχος. κατήγαγων ἀπὸ τοῦ ὕδατος ὑπήντησεν ἀκρίδα. ἐρεθίζων δὲ τὴν ἀκρίδα ὁ βάτραχος εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὅτι ἡ φωνή μου ἔοικε σύριγγι, ἀλλὰ ἡ φωνή σου τυμπάνῳ. ἡ δὲ ἔφη ἀληθὲς λέγεις. ὁ δὲ βάτραχος ἀπήντησεν αὐτῷ λέγων ὅτι ὅσον ᾠδικοτέρα τυμπάνων συρίγγες, τοσοῦτον μείζονες ἀκρίδων βάτραχοι. εἶτα νυκτὼρ φεγγούσης τῆς σελήνης εἶδεν ὁ βάτραχος ἑρπετὸν κοιμᾶσθαι ..,
χρονου
μετα δε ταυτα ξηρανθεισης
καταγαγων
ακριδι
αυτῃ
η εμη φωνη … η δε ση
Don’t you have the sounds the wrong way round?
απηλθεν? They’ve already met.
οσῳ … τοσουτῳ
ωδικωτεραι
(Articles with the nouns would be better)
κοιμωμενον

Edit. Or did you mean not ἐρεθίζων δὲ τὴν ἀκρίδα ὁ βάτραχος but ερεθιζουσα δ’ η ακρις τον βατραχον? Something is the wrong way round.

Βρεκεκεκὲξ κοὰξ κοάξ!

χαίρετε.

ἄλλον καλὸν μῦθον πεποίηκας σύ.

ἰδοῦ τὰ ἐπιμύθια:

πρὸς τοὺς καυχωμένους εὔκαιρος ὁ μῦθος.

ὁ μῦθος δηλοῖ ὅτι πᾶσιν οἱ κρείσσονες ὑπάρχουσι.

ὁ μῦθος δηλοῖ ὅτι μεῖζόν ἐστιν τὸ ἔργον ἢ ὁ λόγος.

φιλῶ! :smiley:

ἴχθύς τις ἦν.

νῦν δ’ ἑρπετόν ἐστιν. ἀμφίβιον γὰρ ὑπάρχει.

ἴσως ἐκ τοῦ ὕδατος?

γελοῖόν ἐστι! :laughing:

ἔρρωσθε.

Thanks Marcos.. Do you see any major grammatical errors in that particular parable ?

Ref:

βάτραχος τις ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ ἔλειξεν ἑρπετόν ὃ κοιμώμενον ἐπ’ ανθει καὶ κατέπιεν αὐτὸ. καὶ πεπληρωμένος πολλῷ ὕβρει, ἀνεφώνησεν κραυγῇ μεγάλῃ καὶ εἶπεν, σβέννυμι ψυχὴν ὁσάκις ἐὰν θέλω.

ἔτι αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος, ἰδοὺ κάμηλος ἐπατησεν ἐπ’ αὐτόν, ἐξαπίνης ἀποκτείνουσα αὐτόν.

It was a 3am and mostly asleep composition, so the language monitor or checking function may not have been too active.

  • χρώνου for χρονου, displacing the discourse marker from the syntax in μετὰ ταῦτα, ξηρανθείσης δὲ for μετα δε ταυτα ξηρανθεισης and ᾠδικοτέρα for ωδικωτεραι are all face-palm mistakes.
  • κατήγαγων for καταγαγων is an error in my grammar due to wrong memorisation of an exemplar text. (Strategy - say that word of the exemplar Diod. 13.90.1 more clearly without making the alpha into a schewa).
  • ὑπήντησεν +acc for +dat is something I did learn at one time, but have apparently forgotten now. (Strategy: incorporate some anta- family wirds into my compositions for a while).
  • εἶδεν +inf for +ptcpl is a lack in my understanding if the language. (Strategy: Look into it).
  • ἀπήντησεν used with the meaning “answer” is cross-linguistic interference from Modern Greek. (Solution: find a Classical Greek word for “answer”

Yes, the characters and their voices definitely are a bit confused in this version.

This is the most serious syntactic error. Can you see what’s wrong with the construction?

Is this an idiomatoc use of this verb?

What case should this noun be? Why?

ἑκηβόλος,

ὃ κοιμώμενον ἐπ’ ανθει is in apposition to ἑρπετόν:



βάτραχος τις ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ ἔλειξεν > ἑρπετόν > , > ὃ κοιμώμενον > > ἐπ’ ανθει > καὶ κατέπιεν αὐτὸ.

Is that not ok ? I should have used the neuter accusative article instead?

Is the case required by the syntactic pattern of each phase the same? A necessary condition of grammatical apposition is that the cases match. Logical or inferential aposition (in the conceptual i-language) doesn’t translate into grammatical aposition withoit the grammaticisation required by the e-language, ie Greek grammar.

Yes, ἑρπετόν ( Accusative), ὃ κοιμώμενον..(Accusative).

What part of speech is ὃ?

The relative pronoun always wants a finite verb, and so κοιμᾶται. Otherwise, just leave the relative out, and certainly don’t add the article, and you have something that sounds a bit more like Greek.

So all I have to do is exchange the participle for the verb and my sentence is perfect:

βάτραχος τις ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ ἔλειξεν ἑρπετόν , ὃ > κοιμᾶται > ἐπ’ ανθει καὶ κατέπιεν αὐτὸ.

Or else leave the relative out, and again the sentence is perfect:

βάτραχος τις ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ ἔλειξεν ἑρπετόν κοιμώμενον ἐπ’ ανθει καὶ κατέπιεν αὐτὸ.

The latter flows more readily.

Thanks

Isaac,

Speaking of flowing …

You may like to look at the difference between κατέπιεν and κατέφαγεν - both covering in some ways, the meaning of the English word “swallow”.

It’s a great sentence. To move it closer to perfection, change a few accents:

βάτραχός τις ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ ἔλειξεν ἑρπετὸν κοιμώμενον ἐπ’ ἄνθει καὶ κατέπιεν αὐτό.

Stop me before I paraphrase again: :laughing:

ἐν ἀγρῷ βάτραχός τις λείξας ἔντομον κοιμώμενον ἐπ’ ἄνθει κατέπιε.

It is great that Isaac is singularly motivated to ecapsulate his meaning in Greek and interaction with others is probably a great part of his continued motivation.

If you’d like to try something different, consider these other options:
Expansion - saying what he said in the “correct” or a different way.
Extension - using the meaning he brought up to keep the “conversation” going.
Correction - pointing out his errors explicitly or asking him to find them.
Instruction - telling him how to correctly do what he seems to be trying to do.

You can see in my responses (extensions) that I feel he needs to develop the communicative features of language - to know that others can respond thoughtfully to the meaning he has expressed. He himself sometimes asks for direct correction of form.

Appreciate your thoughts Marcos and ἑκηβόλος.