Revelation 13:15 - ποιήσῃ = make/force?

Greek Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
1

In Revelation 13:15
English (LSB) - And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Greek - καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ δοῦναι πνεῦμα τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου ἵνα καὶ λαλήσῃ ἡ εἰκὼν τοῦ θηρίου καὶ ποιήσῃ ὅσοι ἂν μὴ προσκυνήσωσιν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ θηρίου ἵνα ἀποκτανθῶσιν

I asked a pastor for some perspective on this and he referred me to Robert Thomas’ exegetical commentary. I was horrified with his eschatology as the basis for translating the text in the way he did. Having said that, I confess my own eschatology has caused me to look more deeper at this passage and question the translation.

In this context, the Image Beast that we make (Revelation 13:14) is given the breath to speak. in Revelation 19, the Image Beast is called the “False prophet”. The Image Beast appears to have no ability to make/force/cause (various translations) and only appears to be a persuasive tool.

My contention is that while ποιήσῃ can be translated as “make” as a generic verb, in the context of speech, it’s not best verb to describe the action. For example, in other passages (John 5:18; John 8:53; John 10:33; John 19:7, 12; 1 John 1:10; 1 John 5:10) it’s translated as “make yourself [out to be]” are all euphemisms in English to make a claim, or make a declaration. Elsewhere (Matthew 12:16[tell about]; Luke 5:33[said]; Acts 5:34[said]; 8:2[cried]; 23:12-13[conspired]) it is often translated with a speaking verb, but not always.

I don’t think the “make” verbs in “make yourself [out to be]” and “make a cake” can be considered equivalent forms of “make”.

If a speaking verb could be substituted, as it is in other passages, shouldn’t this be preferred when the beast appears only to have been given the ability to speak, and appears to have no temporal authority to make/force/cause. I’m not saying that translating ποιήσῃ as “cause” or “make” is outside of reasonable of translation options but that is vastly different from understanding that as ‘forcing’. I simply argue that if the Image Beast has the ability to speak and nothing more, it should ποιήσῃ be better understood with some speaking verb as it is elsewhere in Scripture, rather than relying on euphamisms.

Thoughts?

2

One of the main uses of ποιεῖν is to “cause” things to be in a certain state or to happen. The Greeks used it like that all the way back to Homer.

ἡ δ’ οὔτ’ ἀρνεῖται στυγερὸν γάμον οὔτε τελευτὴν / ποιῆσαι δύναται
And she [Penelope] neither refuses the odious marriage nor is able to bring about an end [kill herself?]

It also means “render so and so”, taking an object as it does in this Revelation verse. This is also from the Odyssey:
οἵ τε δύνανται / ἄφρονα ποιῆσαι καὶ ἐπίφρονά περ μάλ’ ἐόντα
…[the Gods], who are able to make someone witless even if he is sharp as a tack

Still, I’m not sure if there are other instances exactly like this of “ποιεῖν τινα ἵνα …”. There might be – I haven’t looked – it just seems unusual to me. LSJ (the major dictionary of ancient Greek) mentions ὥστε in Attic Greek, but the Xenophon cite had “ποιεῖν ὥστε τινα <aor. inf>”. The Revelation author’s Greek can be a bit odd sometimes.

Yet another use of ποιέω is to “prepare for sacrifice”, dating back to the LXX (a Greek translation of the Old Testament that the New Testament authors often used), and I wonder if that might actually be intended here.

3

One of the main uses of ποιεῖν is to “cause” things to be in a certain state or to happen.

If I take this at face value. None of these passages follow that rule: John 5:18; John 8:53; John 10:33; John 19:7, 12; 1 John 1:10; 1 John 5:10; https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5%3A18%3B+John+8%3A53%3B+John+10%3A33%3B+John+19%3A7%2C+12%3B+1+John+1%3A10%3B+1+John+5%3A10&version=LSB
Nor do these passages: Matthew 12:16; Luke 5:33; Acts 5:34; 8:2; 23:12-13https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12%3A16%3B+Luke+5%3A33%3B+Acts+5%3A34%3B+8%3A2%3B+23%3A12-13&version=LSB.

Jesus can hardly be said to “cause” himself to be equal to God. There are many other examples, eg. Matthew 12:33; we can hardly “make” or “cause” the tree and fruit to be good. And per 1 John 1:10 we can hardly cause or make God a liar. In each of these verses posted above, it makes way more sense to say something was declared, said, persuaded, claimed etc. Is there a real difference between “making a claim” and “claiming”? I don’t think there is. Similarly a difference between “making a declaration” and “declaring”?

If the above passage can be understood as variations of “declares” or “claims”, in the context of Revelation 13:15, if the Image Beast can only speak, shouldn’t the “make/cause” actually be better understood as declared/said/desired/persuaded; as it has no temporal authority to actually make any sort of “cause” or “force”?

I realise we use “make” or “cause” in a variety of ways with various meanings. “Cause you to do X” may well be persuade, or it could mean to put a gun to your head, or it could mean manipulation that prevents you from making other choices. The difficulty I run into is that in the passages cited above we don’t actually believe that anyone was “caused” to make Jesus equal to God, or “caused” God to be a liar etc. But if one was to understand the make/cause than in the way we understand the other passages as variations of “declare” etc, it vastly changes what one might look for in fulfillment of the prophecy. Instead of actually being “caused” to be killed, the Image Beast merely “declares” or “claims” they should be killed.

4

This passage isn’t quite like those other passages. The ones in your first list have the form ποιεῖν τινα +adj./subst. predicate, which is ποιεῖν.III in the LSJ. That is the “render so and so” type of use I mentioned.

In your second list, one of these is this same “render so and so” (Matt 12:16) with an adjective, one ποιεῖν.IV “put in a certain place/condition” (Acts 5:34) with ἔξω βραχύ, and the others are just plain old “make/do something” (prayers, a lamentation, a conspiracy/confederacy) with δεήσεις, κοπετόν, συστροφήν/συνωμοσίαν.

But none of the above are cases of LSJ’s ποιεῖν.IIb “cause or bring about that”, which fits Rev. 13:15. Here are the LSJ’s examples:

b. c. acc. et inf., cause or bring about that . . , σε θεοὶ ποίησαν ἱκέσθαι [ἐς] οἶκον Od.23.258; π. τινὰ κλύειν S.Ph.926; π. τινὰ βλέψαι Ar.Pl.459, cf. 746; π. τινὰ τριηραρχεῖν Id.Eq.912, cf. Av.59; π. τινὰ αἰσχύνεσθαι, κλάειν, ἀπορεῖν, etc., X.Cyr.4.5.48, 2.2.13, Pl.Tht.149a, etc.: with ὥστε inserted, X.Cyr.3.2.29, Ar.Eq.351, etc.: folld. by a relat. clause, π. ὅκως ἔσται ἡ Κύπρος ἐλευθέρη Hdt.5.109, cf. 1.209; ὡς ἂν . . εἰδείην ἐποίουν X.Cyr.6.3.18:—also Med., ἐποιήσατο ὡς ἐν ἀσφαλεῖ εἶεν ib.6.1.23.

Translating the Greek from that entry: σε θεοὶ ποίησαν ἱκέσθαι [ἐς] οἶκον the gods have caused you to come into the home, π. τινὰ κλύειν to cause someone to perceive, π. τινὰ βλέψαι to cause someone to see, π. τινὰ τριηραρχεῖν to cause someone to captain a ship, π. τινὰ αἰσχύνεσθαι, κλάειν, ἀπορεῖν, to to cause someone to feel shame, to break/cry, to be at a loss, π. ὅκως ἔσται ἡ Κύπρος ἐλευθέρη to bring about that Cyprus will be free, ὡς ἂν . . εἰδείην ἐποίουν I brought about that I might know, ἐποιήσατο ὡς ἐν ἀσφαλεῖ εἶεν he brought about that they would be in safety

None of these examples here for LSJ’s ποιεῖν.IIb could be accurately translated with “declares” or “claims”.

5

Thanks for that. I need to have more thinking. Would you suggest that it could mean “force” the way some translations render it?

I should clarify my argument; I’m not suggesting it is “more accurate” translation. It is prophetic language after all. I’m talking about whether it is better understood, of a beast that can’t do anything except speak.

6

I think that the reader is probably supposed to understand the imagined event as a type spoken persuasion. But all the Greek says is that the beast “will make them so they’ll get put to death”. It’s not precise. Did the author imagine the beast ordering the authorities? Or enraging the populace?

7

IMHO, I don’t think there is need to read anything more into the word here than that a causation, that is “to cause to happen.” Perhaps, & probably, to actively & proactively cause something to happen. the following came to my remembrance:

ὅστις γὰρ ἂν > ποιήσῃ > τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Πατρός μου τοῦ ἐν οὐρανοῖς, αὐτός μου ἀδελφὸς καὶ ἀδελφὴ καὶ μήτηρ ἐστίν.

Matt. 12:50

Here https://archive.org/details/rev-13is my reading of Revelation 13 for more context.