Recommendation request: Greek Lyric

Greek Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
1

I’d like to pick up a hard copy of a selection of Greek Lyric because I hate reading poetry on a computer screen, but there seem to be various options so I thought I’d ask here for some advice.

I’m looking for a selection that has enough variety and depth that I can dip in and out without feeling like I need to buy another edition too soon, but don’t have any other particular requirements. I don’t need a translation and the Loeb Greek Lyric is five volumes so I can rule that out - it seems to be a toss up between Campbell’s Greek Lyric Poetry published by BCP (which apparently has an “extensive commentary”), Budelmann’s Cambridge green & yellow Greek Lyric: A Selection and Page’s OCT Lyrica Graeca Selecta, which obviously has no commentary. I’m leaning toward’s the Cambridge selection, even though they are some of the ugliest books in existence (though they do make me nostalgic for Man Utd’s 93/94 away strip if anyone remembers that).

I would also be interested to get a recommendation for a single volume treatment of Greek Lyric in English (or Italian). Pretty much everything I know comes from Martin West’s introduction to his translation for OUP and snippets from elswehere. I’d be happy to read either a monograph or a collection of essays by various authors as long as it gives me a decent grounding.

2

Postscript: While I was searching, I found a copy of Smyth’s Greek Melic Poets with annotations by Arthur Bernard Cook for a mere £250 plus postage. I thought others might be interested to see his scribblings. In the second image, I think he’s referring to the link between Epona the goddess and the Welsh word ebol (cf. equus and ἵππος according to my dictionary), which actually means foal/colt not a fully-grown horse. The Welsh for horse is ceffyl (cf. caballus).

3

Cambell is a bit dated now and he doesnt offer much “help”.

I haven’t used Budelmann but there is a positive review here https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2019/2019.03.02/.

Budelmann has also edited a Cambridge Companion. There is a secondhand copy here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-Companion-Greek-Companions-Literature/dp/0521614767/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=companion+to+greek+lyric&qid=1619186530&s=books&sr=1-1

Its a pity you dont have access to a library like the ICS. (https://library.ics.sas.ac.uk). Membership of the Hellenic society costs £58 a year with access to the Loeb online and two annual periodicals in print form plus library access. They will post books to you but you have to pay postage. It is almost as cheap to be a member as to subscribe to the Loeb as a private individual.

I am sure mwh will have some good suggestions.

4

Thank you! That review is very helpful. So Campbell has a bigger selection of lyric but Budelmann has a much better commentary for students and bodgers like me. I wonder where Page fits in, in terms of scope.

That’s a great tip off about the Hellenic Society Loeb access - it’s over £120 for the first year to access the online Loebs so that would be a massive saving. I’ll definitely think about membership with that and the postal lending.

5

Page has no notes other than the apparatus. The new multi-volume Loebs might serve if you have access.

If you can, I’d suggest getting both Campbell and Budelsmann. They’re both informative. Reading what remains of the lyic poets (apart from Pindar) will require a lot of effort and study. I don’t think either of them covers Pindar or Bacchylides, for whom you’ll need other annotated texts. Pindar is the most extensively preserved of the lyric poets.

Budelsmann doesn’t cover iambus or elegy – there’s another recent Cambridge volume for that. You’ll want to engage with that body of verse, too. Page doesn’t cover those genres either. There’s an OCT by West.

6

[Below was written earlier but I held off posting until I had a chance to look at Cook’s annotations. Sorry.]

That’s an easy one. Budelmann without question, and I say that without having seen much of it. It should certainly supersede Campbell’s selection, which is old and was old-fashioned even at the time (but his 5-vol. Loeb set is good, though weighted down by single-word remains or less). Budelmann excludes Bacchylides as well as Pindar, however, and naturally all elegiac and iambic (unlike Campbell).
Page’s OCT, excellent as it was, was quickly put out of date by substantial newer finds (esp. Alcaeus and Stesichorus) and had to be supplemented (and supplemented again), and now there’s important new Sappho too. Hopefully all this will be in Budelmann.
On the bigger pieces there’s also Gregory Hutchinson’s wide-ranging selection (incl. some tragic lyric), which I admire a lot, and think you might too, once you’ve dug a bit deeper into things.

Seneca mentions the Cambridge Companion. That may be the best thing going now. I’ve only read bits of it myself. I don’t know of anything comprehensive that I can recommend in Italian.

Nice to see A.B.Cook’s annotations. My favorite is his fully justified exclamation points by Bergk’s ludicrously biographical reading of Stesichorus’ palinode.

7

Budelmann has a tiny selection compared to the Campbell selection. 26 pages of Greek, and with less of a bias towards complete lines than Campbell. There is a lot of commentary, but of wildly inconsistent level. A reader has to wade through a lot of “children are considered to be innocent of the adult world <3 references>” to get to the language help (or vice-versa, if that’s your taste). It’s constructed as a survey of the literature, I think, and therefore has the advantages and disadvantages that brings.

I like Campbell and find him useful. He’s happily dead and gone [EDIT: Strike that – I may have killed him off, I can’t find a reference to him in recent decades, but also no obituary; EDIT EDIT still listed as emeritus faculty as University of Victoria], so nobody is marketing him as the latest and greatest. It’s a good selection (I think there is a larger volume as well?), and the notes are problem-focused.

What I’d love is a “list of things to read to prepare you for lyric.” Unlike Homer and Tragedy, I probably hit 40%-50% understanding when I read straight from Page, much less in places, with many words a mystery. My guess is that this will improve after I’ve read all of epic and tragedy and maybe some more Hellenic stuff, but it would be nice to have a better idea of what unlocks what.

8

Great! Budelmann and the Cambridge Companion ordered. Thank you for the excellent service - I’ll come back to your other suggestions when I have some reading under my belt.

You’ll be hearing more from me when the head-scratching begins.

9

Camillo Neri’s Lirici Greci: Età arcaica e classica (Carrocci 2011) is around the same price as Campbell and more generous than Budelmann (you can read Neri’s review of Budelmann here: https://www.academia.edu/44941922/Rec_a_F_Budelmann_Greek_Lyric_A_Selection_Cambridge_2018_Gnomon_XCII_2020_679_686)

The commentary is chattier and seeks to contextualise each fragment and provide an overview of scholarship rather than provide grammatical help (Budelmann) or numerous Homeric parallels (Campbell). The selection is more generous than Budelmenn and Hutchinson, but not as generous as Campbell. For each fragment Neri has conducted an autopsy of the source/testimony in question and reports most modern conjectures in an extremely generous apparatus criticus.

My main issue with the book is that Carocci printed it in different sections. So the Greek text and translation start on p. 15, and the commentary on p. 145, with the apparatus criticus on p. 333, a ‘repertorio delle frome dialettali’ on p. 387, abbreviations on p. 445, bibliography on p. 451. Since one of his goals was to avoid giving any wrong impressions regarding the completeness of a text, he rarely promotes suggested readings from the AC. This means lots of flipping back and forth through the volume. The binding isn’t the best - it never is nowadays anyway - and (for my copy at least) hasn’t withstood at all constant consultation.

A metrical apparatus (in Italian) may be found in the commentary. Neri avoids the excessive (?) nomenclature used in most English and German schools, opting for base-descriptions (i.e. “catalectic glyconic” instead of “telissean”, the tendency to use the more flexible “kat’enoplion” terminology with its variable ancipites instead of more concrete descriptions like “Hagesichorean” or “Aristophanean” for specific forms of enoplion-prosodiac-reizianum). This is because:

la rubrica metrica, evidenziata ogni volta nel commento, punta a dare tutto e solo l’essenziale, e intende fornire anche agli studenti (di qui la rinuncia al latino, di rito negli apparati) gli strumenti per un apprezzamento ritmico di versi quasi sempre pensati per il canto

. p. 11.

The 'repertiorio delle forme dialettali ’ is a great help. I’ll type out an example from Alc. fr. 208a V. to give you a better idea regarding its layout:

  1. ἀσυννέτημμι (lesb.) = ἀσυνετέω (ind. pres. atv. 1a pers. sing.) “non capisco” ; 3. ἄμμες (lesb.) = ἡμεῖς, “noi”, ὄν τὀ μέσσον (lesb.) = ἀνὰ τὸ μέσον, “nel mezzo”

.
The aim is to be uniform, glossing even the most obvious forms, hence ἄμμες (keep in mind Neri wanted his publication to serve needs of Liceo Classico students, undergraduates, and graduates, and to be of service to scholars).

Neri covers Elegy (Call., Tyrt., Mimn., Sol., Theog., Xenoph., Euenus, Critias), Iambic (Archil., Semon., Hippon., Anan.), Monodic lyric (Alc., Sapph., Anacr.), and Choral lyric (Terpand., Alcm., Stesich., Ibyc., Corinn., Simon., Pind., Bacch., Carmina pop., Carmina conv.).

N

10

Thanks for posting about Neri. The Bryn Mawr review has the same reservations that you mention https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2011/2011.09.58/. I was interested to see that the review begins “There are few anthologies of Greek lyric in languages other than Italian, but in Italian they are numerous. I personally own fourteen that have been published in Italy since the 1960s..”

On UK Amazon its rather pricey (£63) so I will have a look at it when I am next in the Library.

11

Thank you - what an informative post. That’s very helpful. Neri really marks Budelmann’s homework in that review! Phew.

It’s only €30 on amazon.it but I haven’t tried to order anything from Italy since we left the EU so probably there is some extra charge now.

12

Yes I saw that but from what I hear EU imports are subject to somewhat arbitrary customs duties and possible lengthy delays. if you manage to get it let me know!

13

I just remembered that he was made a condensed version of the anthology available among his teaching materials on the Unibo website:

https://www.unibo.it/it/didattica/insegnamenti/insegnamento/2020/444145

If you scroll down, follow the link to “altre eventuali informazioni” and rummage through the various pages there you’ll find a PDF version. This version is better organised, but lacks a few things that are present in the printed book.

Perhaps this version could serve as a handy supplement to the ones you’ve already ordered? Or let you try before you buy…

“There are few anthologies of Greek lyric in languages other than Italian, but in Italian they are numerous. I personally own fourteen that have been published in Italy since the 1960s..”

Neri lists a few in his bibliographies. I have consulted some, but they’re directed more to a younger audience with very little experience. Most are Liceo manuals, like Gentili-Catenacci Polinnia.

14

180 pages! How interesting to have put that up for free online. The format works very well with the text followed by the metrical note, app crit, etc. It’s a shame the print version doesn’t follow it. Thanks again! It amazes me that kids in the liceo are working through these texts - that’s streets ahead of GCSE and A-level Greek over here, as far as I understand it (I didn’t take either but I’ve perused the past papers).

Here’s the direct link to the pdf for anyone interested:

http://www2.classics.unibo.it/Didattica/Programs/20202021/FLG2021/Lirici.pdf

15

Italy’s retention of the gymnasium system makes a big difference. The liceo classico gives students an excellent grounding in Classics, which still has a certain cachet there. This is the advantage of early specialization, of course. In the US prospective classicists often don’t encounter Greek until their final undergraduate year or later, and never catch up.
Yes Neri is very good in this format. It’s a pity it’s not more up to date, and he’s regrettably conservative, as Italian scholars tend to be.

Incidentally, I can report that David Campbell is alive and well. - Joel, please check your facts before declaring someone “happily dead and gone.” And when I’m dead and gone it will not be happily.

16

David A. Campbell of 1967(!) Greek Lyric Poetry fame (unhappily?) shares his name with David Campbell (1910-1979), “Australia’s finest Lyric Poet” and Google misled me. It is good to hear that he is still around. I did stick the edit in only a few minutes after I wrote the post.

seeks to contextualise each fragment and provide an overview of scholarship rather than provide grammatical help (Budelmann) or numerous Homeric parallels (Campbell)

This didn’t strike me as too good a summary of either B or C.

17

It amazes me that kids in the liceo are working through these texts



The liceo classico gives students an excellent grounding in Classics

I taught English in a Liceo Classico for a year before commencing my studies at Bologna. Most schools dedicate 4-8 hours a week to each language (which is the equivalent of two courses at Australian universities, and I’d assume also at US and UK ones). Latin is usually begun at the scuola media, in the final years when the kids are about 11-12 years old. Once they get to the Liceo they already have a solid grounding in Latin morphology and begin translating ‘versioni’ while covering more complex syntax and making a start on Greek.

The final two years are dedicated to manuals, which combine anthologies of texts with textual history. These are always multi-volume works. It is almost like working through the Cambridge History of Classical Literature alongside representative passages from each author (almost… things are simplified at times). I always say to my Italian partner how I wish I had had the same schooling.

This didn’t strike me as too good a summary of either B or C.

You’re certainly right! I was simply trying to highlight two (important!!) features which can’t be found in Neri.

18

I just posted another thread recommending a work in Italian on ancient Greek literary languages. A bit off topic for this thread, but very relevant to lyric genres.

19

A quick review of this excellent book (The Cambridge Companion to Greek Lyric edited by Felix Budelmann), having read all of it apart from a couple of skipped chapters.

The book is split into three major sections: the first covers context and themes, the second the poets themselves and the third covers reception from Alexandria to the present day. There is discussion of Iambos and Elegy throughout, as well as in their own dedicated chapters.

Some of these Cambridge Companions can feel a bit thrown together or be overly reverential of the contribution of a single, well-respected scholar at the expense of the editorial direction of the Companion as a whole. Budelmann has done an excellent job of making this feel like a collaborative effort, with individual essays revisiting common themes from different perspectives and not stepping on each other’s toes.

Every chapter re-examines the question “What is lyric?” and has something interesting to add, culminating in a nice Epilogue exploring how the modern conception of ’lyrics’ interacts with our reception of ‘lyric’. There are a few flat chapters - Alessandro Barchiesi’s essay on the reception of Greek lyric by Horace and Catullus I thought was curiously garbled and it would have been nice to have a whole chapter on Pindar (who has to budge up for Simonides and Bacchylides in a single chapter) - but in general this is an ideal introduction to the topic. Five thumbs up.

Chapters which I thought were particularly well done (any of which could be read as a standalone):

  • Luigi Battezzato - Metre and music. The summary of metre gets a bit bogged down in terminology towards the end but I can see it being very useful to come back to.
  • Antonio Aloni - Elegy: Forms, functions and communication
  • Dimitrios Yatromanolakis - Alcaeus and Sappho and also the later chapter Ancient Greek Popular Song
  • Silvia Barbantani - Lyric in the Hellenistic period and beyond. This chapter includes lots of detail on transmission (or not) of the texts.
  • Pantelis Michelakis - Greek lyric from the Renaissance to the eighteenth century. Some great stuff on the anacreontic craze in European literature.
  • Michael Silk - Lyric and lyrics: perspectives, ancient and modern

Thanks to Seneca for the recommendation.