Just a quick note, one of the surprises I’ve had about finally getting around to reading the Iliad in Greek (I’m now in 18), is how much it has enriched my reading and teaching of the Aeneid. Not just specific allusions and references, but the whole idiom of epic… Plus it’s huge fun.
Hi Barry,
I just finished book 24 the day before yesterday and am starting my second read-through! It has taken 18 months at roughly an hour a day and worth every minute! I know I’ve already mentioned some of my observations from reading the Aeneid concurrently, but reading the second half (Books 7-12) which can be considered Vergil’s Iliad, has really been an educational experience. I realize now that back in high school, we were barely skimming the surface of what the Aeneid has to offer. As you say, apart from the allusive nature of the poem, there are many other elements of the Iliad that Vergil has taken and made his own and it’s fascinating to see how he does it. I’m talking about the large and small scale story patterns, e.g. Nisus & Euryalus’ night mission to bring word to Aeneas can be compared (not necessarily paralleled) to Odysseus & Diomedes’ scouting mission or the funeral games for Anchises in the Aeneid compare to Achilles’ funeral games for Patroclus in the Iliad, (You’re going to love that book!)or the fashioning of divine armor, especially the shields. The imagery on the shields I think is a very good example of how Vergil adapts a Greek epic story pattern for Roman consumption.
You know, I can’t think of a better reason for learning both Latin & Greek!
P.S. Biggest Lesson from reading both - don’t ever get on the bad side of Hera/Juno!
Aetos, as they say in some circles, amen and amen. I’m seriously thinking about revisiting books 7-12 of the Aeneid. Since the AP curriculum no longer includes anything from those books, I haven’t paid much attention to them recently, but now I’m hyped!
I know this has been discussed elsewhere (I remember a thread about it here on Textkit), but I actually read the Ilias Latina prior to embarking on the Iliad in Greek, and it was a wonderful summary written in fairly easy Latin, for those in antiquity who didn’t have access to Greek. It can easily be found online, there is a student edition available from Amazon, and there is this lovely dissertation, which includes text, translation and commentary.
http://cdm15799.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15799coll3/id/506434
The Ilias Latina is definitely on my list! As to the Aeneid, I have a couple of editions of Jenney’s & Scudder’s Fourth Year Latin that include selections from Books 7-12, but they leave quite a lot out, e.g. in Book 12, we find out that Juno has yet one more dirty trick up her sleeve! (At least I think it’s her last trick, this time using Juturna as her very willing agent). In my quest to read the entire Aeneid, I’ve been using T.E. Page’s edition. The notes are great and my vision is still just good enough to make out the somewhat small print!
Here’s a little tidbit in Book 12 (lines 206-211) that I came across the other day:
ut sceptrum hoc” (dextra sceptrum nam forte gerebat
“numquam fronde levi fundet virgulta nec umbras,
cum semel in silvis imo de stirpe recisum
matre caret posuitque comas et bracchia ferro,
olim arbos, nunc artificis manus aere decoro
inclusit patribusque dedit gesture Latinis.”
This is part of Latinus’ reply to Aeneas as they make their agreement to settle the conflict with a contest of champions. Look familiar?
Just thought I’d report that I’m done with the Iliad and now onto the Odyssey (it just seemed a natural fit for some reason, even though I read it in grad school, so long ago that it’s like doing it for the first time). There are 12,110 lines in the Odyssey. 20 lines a day means completing it in less than two years (but I hope to go a bit faster than that).
The hardcopy text i’m using was part of the private library of Helen North from Swarthmore (d. 2012). One of her colleagues a year or two ago brought a number of her books for free distribution at the Philadelphia Classical Society professional day (stating that she had always wanted them so distributed, but they were just now getting around to it). I not only got the Odyssey but also a nice volume on Hesiod’s Theogony and another of Pindar. The date that she wrote in the Homer text is April 15, 1946, and there is also the name of a previous owner of the text (she got it used!).
Welcome back to the Odyssey, Barry! I’ve just started myself, presently finishing my second read-through of Book 3, where Telemachus has been visiting Nestor. I’m using Stanford’s edition (a red MacMillan) for the first read, followed by Stephanie West’s commentary. When I finish a book, along with the sections in Stanford’s and West’s commentaries, I then go back and read through the book one more time before carrying on to the next. Of the three activities, (reading the Greek, reading Stanford’s commentary and reading West’s commentary), I find I spend most of my time reading West’s commentary. I managed to “score” the 3 volume Commentary of Heubeck, Hainesworth, West et al. for the low, low price of $75.00!
I’ve ordered the OCT of the first 12 books for my second read-throughs, so as to have a CA available and have a brighter text (my little red mac is in rough shape!).
Starting in Book 1, and in my typical linear fashion will proceed. I’m not the minimalist that Joel is, but I plan only to look at my free online commentaries when a question occurs. But know I now whom to ask if I need something more in depth!
Please do! Back when Sean was running the reading group, I would borrow the first volume of the commentary from the Endicott College Library, renew it, renew it again then take it back, wait a few days then borrow it again, renew, renew and so on. In a way I felt attached to that book. My mother actually purchased that copy for Bradford College years ago. When the college went out of business, the book ended up at Endicott, where my sister now works as a graphic artist!
that’s a pretty good catch.
I’ve ordered the OCT of the first 12 books for my second read-throughs, so as to have a CA available and have a brighter text (my little red mac is in rough shape!).
it shouldn’t be too hard to get a copy of the other OCTs via abebooks. The further back you go, towards the prewar printings, the better the print quality gets.
Too true! I have the second volume of Herodotus, which I bought back in 1969, which is far superior to the reprint of the first volume that I bought two years ago. Recently, I made the mistake of purchasing a “new” copy of the Xenophon’s Anabasis, only to discover it was a reprint. It’s mostly readable, but the text just lacks the crispness of typeset books and so has an almost fuzzy appearance. In terms of bindings, I’ve also heard that after WWII, stitched bindings became extremely rare. I use Abebooks a lot and from now on, will pay closer attention to printing dates.
Yes, that ‘crispness’ makes a big difference when you’re really poring over the page the way you do with the tougher kinds of Greek or Latin. Authors like Plato or Homer are in 100-years old editions that have been reprinted so many times the type gets fuzzy.
BTW this reminds me of my copies of the Herodotus OCT, that were “shot through,” interleaved, with blanc pages for notes and rebound in half-calf. I must have bought them in the early eighties. I really don’t know where I have put those, and I don’t expect to read this author any time soon (this life) so I’m not even going to try and find them.