I think I’ve gotten most of the basic pronunciation rules of Latin down, but when reading along in Lingua Latina, I came across the word “Harpyiae.” The ablative was used in the line so the result was “ab Harpyiis,” long y, long second i. Anyway, I cannot figure out how to pronounce this without twisting my tongue into a knot. Is the first i consonantal? If not, would the Romans really have tried to roll out the long y (as pronounced like the German u-umlaut), followed by a short i, followed by a long i. Would anything be contracted?
I think you’re right: the first “i” is consonantal. I would pronounce them “har-pü-yai” and “har-pü-yees.” I expect a lot of people will tell me I’m wrong, though, so let me save you the trouble: I’m probably wrong!
Mm, yes, you are wrong, amice, but I once thought similarly.
They are all pronounced individually — especially because this is a Greek word. Harpyiis has four syllables: long, short, short, long. Same for Harpyiae. You can be fluid and legato in your pronounciation of these vowels — not staccato and halting — just no full glides, as IPA [j].
For clarification, Luce, don’t you mean the syllables are long, long, short, long? LL puts a macron over that “y.”
Also, a similar question: I can see that the Greek origin suggests the pronounciation as you described, Luce, and perhaps Golden Age orators would have pronounced it thus, as should we. However, most language pronunciations suffer under the burden of human laziness. So, would that pronunciation have been adhered to by all?
Perhaps this is the wrong place to ask such a question, as it pertains more to linguistics than to anything else. But, would a group of plebs or equites not trained in oratory work out the three last syllables of “Harpyiis” in a fluid, enunciated progression?
As a pleb I hope you don’t mind my pronouncing “Harpyiis” with “yi” as a diphthong followed by “is”. But it surely depends on whose pleb (i.e. language background). A really plebish pronunciation might be “Harpyijis”.
(This post was merely a jocular interjection.)
Scots keep interrupting…
The yi in harpyiae et sim. is a diphthong to be pronounced as Greek υι, whence it comes. E.g.:
sola nouum dictuque nefas Harpyia Celaeno (Aen. 3.365) Thyias, ubi audito stimulant trieterica Baccho (Aen. 4.302)
Pilumno quos ipsa decus dedit Orithyia (Aen. 12.83) (cf. Servius ad loc.: sane hic versus spondiazon est: nam ‘thyi’ diphthongus
est Graeca; and elsewhere in general: y et i in Graecis nominibus diphthongus est, ut Harpyia)
If you prefer your Horace to Vergil,
fas pervicacis est mihi Thyiadas (Odes 2.19.9, in Alcaics)
