Χαίρετε!
I am reading chapter 32 of Dr. Mastronarde’s work which pertains to subjunctives. On page 277 he states,
“In the second or third person, the subjunctive (normally aorist) with
μή may express a prohibition: that is, a negative command. (A negative command
with present aspect usually is expressed instead with the imperative: Unit 8.2 and
Unit 19.6.)”
So, if I want to give an imperative, I would use the indicative, such as ἐσθίε τὸν μῆλον
If I want to give a negative command, I would use a prohibitive subjunctive, such as μὴ φάγῃ τὸν μῆλον.
What if I want to make it more of a suggestion such as, “You should not eat the apple.” Should I use a different subjunctive construction, or should I just wait for another chapter down the road to inform me?
You have some mistakes here.
ἔσθιε τὸ μῆλον is the present imperative (not indicative).
The aorist negative command (aka prohibition) is μὴ φάγῃς (2nd person).
For “You should not eat the apple” you could say οὐ δεῖ σε φαγεῖν (or ἐσθίειν) τὸ μῆλον.
μῆλον is neuter.
The difference between aorist and present is aspectual.
What if I want to make it more of a suggestion such as, “You should not eat the apple.”
The grammars (or textbooks made by stitching up pieces from the grammars) are bad at answering this sort of question. They excel at taxonomy of language, but do poorly at patterns of usage that are largely statistical.
You have to answer this sort of thing, imo, by reading, and by getting a feel for how they used language. I think a Greek might have said something like συμβουλεύω δὲ μὴ φαγεῖν τὸ μῆλον, “I advise you not to eat the apple”. On the other hand, the simple imperative prohibitions are less harsh in Greek than they are in English – or at least I see them used in situations in Greek that would seem rude or unlikely in English.
Thank you for the replies. One other question I have is that Dr. Mastronarde wrote that a second or third person aorist subjunctive with a μὴ wrote “may” be a subjunctive prohibitive. Since it is not always, if I see a second or third person aorist with a μὴ, should I first try to translate it as a subjunctive prohibitive? I am not sure what other possibilities there are.
As for “You should not eat the apple,” οὐ δεῖ (or χρή) σε φαγεῖν τὸ μῆλον is the simplest and most idiomatic way of saying that. συμβουλεύω δὲ μὴ φαγεῖν τὸ μῆλον is rather more formal but I’d have nothing against it in a context that motivated the δέ. An optative with ἄν would be elliptical and also need some context.
No, δεῖ does not necessarily “carry necessity along with it.” It’s often more like Lat. oportet, or χρή (which it tended to replace over time), and can correspond very well to English “ought” or “should.”
“ought” and “should” when used as verbs of general necessity, somewhat interchangeable in translation with “must” or “have to” (like your quoted Greek), separate from the “should” of suggestion.
“You should not eat the apple [that you stole from the street vendor]” - an implied moral necessity, οὐ δεῖ or stronger
“You should not eat the apple [you should eat the tasty looking orange]” - should working as suggestion. οὐ δεῖ when it’s expressed strongly.
We are not instructors, we are fellow participants in a forum. And it is a discussion, not a performance, so no audience/performer distinction. We’re all just chattin’, man.