I’ve just started learning Ancient Greek about a week ago using Teach Yourself Ancient Greek by Gavin Betts and Alan Henry. I’m on Unit 5 right now, and I decided to try composing a few random sentences of my own and run them by some more experienced Greek scholars to see if I’m at least on the right track with what I’ve learned so far. Any comments/tips will be much appreciated! I’m a bit unsure of the declension of “Herakles,” whose genitive form seems like that of a regular second-declension form except for the extra sigma tacked onto the end, and of using the word “asophia” to mean “lack of wisdom” (I’m not sure it exists, but it seems logical and works well enough for the purpose of grammatical experimentation).
Here goes (in iota-adscript, since I don’t think the fora support subscript)!
'O Πoσειδων των θαλαττων θεoς εστιν.
Mετα της Aλκμηνης Zευς τoν 'Hρακλεoυν εσφειρσεν.
Eν τωι νησωι ηναμενoν.
Eις Tρoιᾱν πεμπεις στρατιωτας;
'H ασoφια εν τηι ψῡχηι ανθρωπoυ μιασμα (εστιν).
'O μεν Περσευς την Mεδoυσαν εδιαφθειρσεν, 'o dε Θησευς τoν Mῑνωταυρoν εδιαφθειρσεν.
Actually, there’s complete support of Polytonic Greek here. If you’d like to write with accents too, this is a link that may be of help.
1, 4 and 5 look good to me.
In 2, I have no idea where εσφειρσεν come from, nor what you meant to say. The Autenrieth dictionary @Perseus has
Ἀλκ-μήνη : wife of Amphitryon in Thebes, mother of Heracles by Zeus, and of Iphicles by Amphitryon.
Since I have never read the story myself, I assume you meant to say that Zeus with Alcmene bore/had borne Heracles.
I think the aorist of φέρω would fit here, ἤνεγκεν.
Maybe you meant ἐνέμενoν in 3, impf. of ἐμμένω?
Two notes about 6:
a. I believe the augment comes after the preposition, but I’m not familiar with this form of διαφθείρω.
If you mean to use the aorist, I think the form is διέφθειρεν.
b. It would probably be considered redundant to repeat the same verb in Greek.
The sentences look pretty good in general – composition is hard, and when you’re starting out just getting the forms right can be a challenge! I was interested in some of the finer aspects of word choice/case usage, so I’ve responded at some length to a couple of your sentences (keep in mind that I’m not an expert myself – this is partly simply gut instinct from my reading, so I’m completely open to corrections)
Herakles is third declension, as far as I can tell, although I’m not absolutely certain. (LSJ entry at Perseus
“meta” tends to mean “with” in the sense of “in the presence/company of”. For agency, instrument, or origin, Greek tends to use other forms – often a bare dative or a genitive with or without a preposition.
For “beget, sire” there are a couple of options: γεννάω, τίκτω (although this is used mainly of the female)
σπείρω and φύω are possible, I tguess, but I don’t associate them as much with humans siring children, for some reason.
The Greeks liked geneaologies – Hesiod is usually a good place to start when you’re looking for options on how to express who gave birth to or was born to whom. As far as I can tell the following permutations are possible (plus some more complicated ones involving participles)
Starting from the father: Ζεῦς ἐγέννασε τὸν Ἡρακλέα ἐκ Ἁκλμήνης (or perhaps Ἀλκμήνῃ, I’m not absolutely certain)
Mother: ἡ Ἀλκμήνη ἔτεκα τὸν Ἡρακλέα Ζηνί.
Child: Ἡρακλῆς ἐγένετο ἐκ Ζηνὸς τῇ Ἀλκμήνῃ (again, not absolutely certain about the dative here. ἐκ Ζηνὸς καὶ Ἀλκμήνης might also be possible, but Greek tends to treat the role of the female and the role of the male differently)
Eν τωι νησωι ηναμενoν.
Were you trying for the past tense of ἀναμένω here? The augment is put after the prefix in all but a very few cases (e.g, arguably ἐπιστάμαι, where the preposition is no longer treated like a prefix). The form you want would be ἀνέμενον.
'O μεν Περσευς την Mεδoυσαν εδιαφθειρσεν, 'o dε Θησευς τoν Mῑνωταυρoν εδιαφθειρσεν.
I would use ἀπέκτεινεν here. διαφθείρω does mean to ruin/destroy, but to my ear it’s a little more impersonal/indirect than ἀποκτείνω. It’s used a lot for talking about cities, when used of people it can also mean simply “corrupt”.
I agree with Nate that it’s not necessary to repeat the verb here.
Thanks folks! I’ve learned some important stuff from this already.
3rd sing. aorist of “σπειρω,” which according to the book means “sow,” “engender,” or “scatter.”
Actually, I meant 3rd sing. impf. of αναμενω, which is another vocabulary item in the book.
Is the missing sigma a typo, or does this verb have a strong aorist stem?
Is the “-oυς” genitive a contraction, then?
I take it, based on the lack of a sigma at the end of the stem “απεκτειν-,” that that’s a strong aorist, right?
Or “δια” with the genitive, perhaps?
Reminds me of German with its separable-prefix verbs, LOL! Shouldn’t it be “ανημενον,” then? According to my book, “α” lengthens directly to “η” in temporal augments. Is the prefix really just “αν” with the extra “α” added because it precedes a vowel? Do we then drop that second “α” in the aorist and do a syllabic augment instead? Is this (or something similar) what’s going on with NateD26’s recommendation of “διέφθειρεν” for the aorist form of “διαφθείρω” as well?
I wonder what dialect you are learning. The aorist of σπείρω in Attic is strong, ἔ-σπειρ-α. (I can’t find in the dictionary or in Smyth any
variations.)
It is a strong aorist. δια-έ-φθειρ-α* » α of prefix drops before vowels (except in περί the iota stays) » δι-έ-φθειρ-α.
Yes. See Smyth §265 for a similar declension.
Also see §55 for an explanation of the contraction process of three vowels.
The lack of a sigma in the aorist is not necessarily a sign of a strong aorist. Strong (or “second” aorist) just means that the verb doesn’t use the personal endings in alpha like a normal aorist, but the ο/ε secondary endings (like the imperfect) instead.
“Regular” verbs do form the aorist by adding a sigma, but there are tons of exceptions, and my experience is that most verbs show some irregularity in at least one of their principle parts. So to know how to form the aorist of a verb, you usually have to look it up. That’s why most textbooks have you learn it as a separate principle part: because you can’t reliably derive it from the present stem.
You will start to recognize patterns after a while, though. Stems ending in λ, ρ, or ν do not generally add a sigma in the aorist (as with σπειρω) and will often show vowel lengthening instead. (This has come up a couple of times recently; I suggest you browse some of the recent threads for more information.)
I really have nothing to add to Nate’s explanation of prefixed verbs and augments. Besides περι, προ also tends not to lose it’s vowel and will contract to form -ου- instead.
If you want to know more, Kaegi has a good explanation of verbs forms (for more info on augments specifically, see section 73 ff)
Thanks again, folks! Let’s see if I can correct some of these (this time in polytonic iota-subscript):
'O Πoσειδῶν τῶν θάλαττῶν θεòς εστíν.
Eκ τῆς Aλκμήνης Zεῦς τòν 'Hρακλέα εγέννησεν. (Thanks for challenging me with a contracted verb, Spiphany!)
Eν τῇ νήσῷ ανέμενoν.
Eις Tρoίᾱν πέμπεις στρατιώτας;
'H ασoφίᾱ εν τῇ ανθρώπoυ ψῡχῇ μíασμα (εστιν).
'O μὲν Περσεὺς τὴν Mέδoυσαν απέκτεινεν, 'o dὲ Θησεὺς τòν Mῑνώταυρoν.
Nate, when I mentioned “διὰ”+gen as a possible construction, I was thinking that since “διὰ” means “by means of” with the genitive," that it could work in the sense of “Zeus sired Hercules through (by means of) Alcmene.”
Oh, I see. Wouldn’t that sense make Alcmene no more than an instrument? (Unless it was acceptable to relate to a woman
as merely the means by which a child is born.)
Yep, Alcmene would be an instrument. Poseidon raped Medusa, and yet Athena punished the victim rather than the perpetrator. Odysseus’ trysts with Circe and Calypso are treated in literature with no adverse moral judgments, even though Penelope is waiting faithfully for him back home in Ithaca. I figured such a leap wouldn’t seem out of place in a culture as chauvinistic as this (obviously, no one would dare even imply such a thing in the modern West, even if he secretly believed it). Of course, my sources are dramatized documentaries from the History Channel, so there’s no guarantee of 100% accuracy. Feel free to correct me if I’m mistaken.
Notice that there should only be one accent on a word (not counting enclitic instances). θάλλατῶν should be θαλάττων. Also, the breathing mark is found on the ’ key. '+o > ὀ || "+o > ὁ. Also, νήσῷ should be νήσῳ. Simple iota-subscript is on the { key (that is, you must use shift only).
You can add ἆρ(α) to your fourth sentence: ἆρ᾿ εἰς Τροίαν στρατιώτας πέμπεις; (or something similar).
Notice that you don’t need to use capital letters at the beginning of a sentence either.
You mentioned that you’re using Teach Yourself Ancient Greek. Is this the old version, or have you purchased the newest version, the title of which has been changed to Complete Ancient Greek: Teach Yourself? I picked that up a while back, and it’s amazing.
Thanks, Jaihare! I have the older edition. It’s odd that you should mention owning the new edition, since according to Amazon, it won’t be released until February. Where did you get yours? I bought mine used, and I have a couple pages falling out.
