Context: Socrates criticizes earlier philosophers.
“. . . τὴν δὲ τοῦ ὡς οἷόν τε βέλτιστα αὐτὰ τεθῆναι δύναμιν οὕτω νῦν κεῖσθαι, ταύτην οὔτε ζητοῦσιν. . .”
My translation effort: but the capacity of things [ in the world] to be placed in the best possible way, just as they are now placed, this they [i.e. those Socrates critiques] do not look for. . . ."
This is a collection of guesses, but I don’t really understand how the Greek works. A commentary would be very helpful. FWIW, I’m thinking of this passage as perhaps an inspiration for Leibniz’s “best of all possible worlds” idea.
I don’t speak English very well, so I’ll provide you with the translation from Perseus: “but they do not look for the power which causes things to be now placed as it is best for them to be placed”
The term δύναμιν means power or force, intended as some kind of spiritual, divine power that places/arranges objects in the best possible way. And Socrates criticizes those philosophers for not seeking this [divine] power/force.
Many thanks to paveln for the translation. I want to identify the particular problems that bothered me. (I’ve been working on this sentence for some time and may have got myself confused.)
“. . . τὴν δὲ τοῦ ὡς οἷόν τε βέλτιστα αὐτὰ τεθῆναι δύναμιν οὕτω νῦν κεῖσθαι, ταύτην οὔτε ζητοῦσιν. . .”
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ὡς οἷόν τε: how does this phrase function in the sentence?
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τοῦ ὡς οἷόν τε βέλτιστα αὐτὰ τεθῆναι: is τεθῆναι an articular infinitive in the genitive case, with τοῦ? Isn’t this infinitive passive? How to express its meaning in English?
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αὐτὰ: ??
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κεῖσθαι: I parsed this present middle/passive. I don’t understand the middle or passive meaning.
The articular infinitive is τοῦ . . . αὐτὰ . . . οὕτω νῦν κεῖσθαι
“[the force that causes] these things to be so disposed at present”
ὡς οἷόν τε βέλτιστα αὐτὰ τεθῆναι
“[so disposed at present] as they can be best disposed”
αὐτὰ does double duty with both τεθῆναι and κεῖσθαι, and κεῖσθαι is used as passive of τίθημι. οἷόν τε is the idiom “to be possible.” With superlative βέλτιστα, “as well as possible.”
“the force that causes these things to be so disposed at present as it is possible for them to be best disposed”
Thank you Hylander. Would you comment on the verb tense of τεθῆναι and κεῖσθαι, how to understand the meaning?
τεθῆναι is aorist passive – the aorist infinitive designates simply the act of disposing or putting, without regard to duration or other aspects of the act.
κεῖσθαι is present, designating a present state, with νῦν. As noted, κεῖμαι functions as the passive of τίθημι, but only in the present, imperfect, and future. κεῖμαι has no aorist. Thus, τεθῆναι here for aorist passive.
Very helpful Hylander. So Socrates, as I read him, tells us that the world is laid out as best it could be laid out. And Leibniz declares, as he is usually Engiished, the world we have is the best of all possible worlds. The similarity was so striking, that I had to make sure that I understood the Greek here. A little googling turned up potted accountsof Leibniz that mentioned his great respect for Plato, and in particular for the Phaedo. What a pleasure it is to run across such things! And I cannot overstate my gratitude for the help I’ve received here!
Here’s another question regarding the identification of the articular infinitive. How to decide which infinitive goes with the genitive article, in this sentence? I can see how I went wrong: when I encountered the τοῦ, I tried to match it with the next infinitive, and simply stuck with that choice. I never considered the second infinitive.
Is it possible to explain the how one makes the correct choice in such situtations?
For ease of reference, I repeat the passage below:
“. . . τὴν δὲ τοῦ ὡς οἷόν τε βέλτιστα αὐτὰ τεθῆναι δύναμιν οὕτω νῦν κεῖσθαι, ταύτην οὔτε ζητοῦσιν. . .”
The ὡς and οὕτως go together, and the ὡς part is usually parenthetical and finite, with the οὕτως continuing the expression. Ex. πῶς οὖν ἄν τις κάλλιον καὶ εὐσεβέστερον τιμῴη θεοὺς ἤ, ὡς αὐτοὶ κελεύουσιν, οὕτω ποιῶν; Another ex. ὡς ἐγὼ ἐζήτουν ἀποκρίνα-
σθαί σε, οὕτω νῦν ἀπεκρίνω
Also, you will notice that οἷόν τε expects an infinitive and gets τεθῆναι, while τοῦ is still waiting for something (not necessarily an infinitive) once you get to the κεῖσθαι, which needs something to govern it (only τοῦ is available).
I think that you are taking Plato too expansively with the “best of all possible worlds”. He is making a claim for arrangement and order of the universe, but it does not need to be made too microscopic.
Many thanks to jeidsath!
Re: grammar notes–very helpful. I have needed these tips for quite a while. I must have studied them, but for me grammar & syntax principles stick in mind better when studied in relation to an actual difficulty.
Re: don’t make it too microscopic. You are quite right. My philosophical generalization was meant only to show how the subject matter moved me to closer examination of how it was expressed. In fact, I had a satisfactory meaning, considering my Greek, but as I went over the sentence, I realized that I didn’t understand how the sentence was producing the meaning.