Phonetic Confusion

Would anybody be so kind as to demystify some of the phonetic terminology for me? I understand stop, fricative, front vowel, back vowel etc. but some of the others I haven’t a clue about. I suspect that some of them are interchangble.

-Obstruent (Haven’t the foggiest.)

I think these two might be the same:
-Approximant (some kind of non-stop non-fricative; I have a vague idea that w and the like go here)
-Liquid (l and r? w?)

I have a vague idea these three might be the same thing:
-Sonant (m,n,r,l,y,w I think)
-Resonant “”
-Semivowel “”

Is a -sibilant the same as a fricative? Or is just a dental fricative?

thanks
-thucy

Oh dear. I can certainly sympathise with your position, for learning the jargon has certainly been my least favourite part of phonology…

In general: it’s not so much that phonological terms are interchangeable, but that any given sound is likely to fall into more than one category. This is partly because some terms are ‘blanket’ terms subdivided into more specific categories, and partly because there are different ways of classifying sounds…

Obstruent:
Consonants formed by obstructing the airway - this is a broad category subdivided into plosives, fricatives, and affricates.

Approximant:
A broader category subdivided into semivowels and liquids. (I’ve had trouble myself understanding what this term means, and what it is exactly that these two subdivisions have in common that they should be lumped together under another term.)

Liquids:
To put it simply, R and L. But bear in mind that some languages don’t distinguish between these two letters, whereas other languages create finer distinctions than English does between different possible pronunciations of the letters.

Semivowels:
English Y and W, and similar sounds in other languages. These sounds are the ‘tail end’ of vowels: you get the ‘y’ sound if you hold out the vowel ee (as in ‘feed’) and the ‘w’ sound if you hold out the vowel oo (as in ‘food’).

Sibilants:
You are right that they are subset of fricatives, but although they involve the teeth they are not “dental fricatives”. Sibilants are, for instance, English s, z, and sh. Dental fricatives, on the other hand, would be both pronunciations of English th (think vs this).

Can’t really help with sonant and resonant since I’ve never come across the terms before. That is, unless you meant sonorant.

Sonorant:
Broad term for any sound that can be produced continuously without turbulence. Subdivisions: vowels, approximants, nasal consonants.

. . .
I hope this helps! I don’t know what terms you already are/aren’t familiar with, so my apologies if I haven’t defined something you needed explained. Feel free to put further questions to me if you need to though!

Thank you very much indeed for that Raya. You’ve cleared up most of my confusion!

However…
-Plosives are stops, right?
-So an obstruent is stop/fricative/affricative and thus NOT an approximant. But what then is the fundamental difference between an obstruent and an approximant? On the names I’d guess that ostruents actually involve stopping the air flow whereas approximants just kind of… shape it.
-Which points of articulation exactly do sibilants cover then? Inter-dental, dental, apical..?
-Where do nasals come in all this? And what about syllabic consonants?
-Is the difference between l and r that l is lateral and r isn’t?

Glad to be of help! As for your further questions:

Yes, plosives are stops - but some stops (nasal stops) are not plosives.

You’re right about obstruents and approximants. Basically, obstruents involve blocking air in the vocal tract completely, whereas approximants only narrow the tract.

As for sibilants, I quote from Wikipedia’s article:

s, z alveolar
ʃ, ʒ palato-alveolar or postalveolar (actual articulation: domed postalveolar)
ɕ, ʑ alveolo-palatal (actual articulation: laminal postalveolar)
ʂ, ʐ retroflex (actual articulation: (a) apical postalveolar, or (b) sub-apical postalveolar/palatal)

Nasal sounds involve air escaping from the nose. There are both nasal consonants and vowels. Nasal consonants are interesting because they are stops (since airflow through the mouth is blocked), but they are also sonorants (since they do not stop air from escaping).

A syllabic consonant is when you have a syllable that has a consonant but no vowel. The second syllable of saddle is a good example. When you say it you are gliding directly from the d to the l (supposedly - personally I’d have thought you were adding a vowel there, making it “sad-ull”).

Liquids fall into 2 categories: laterals and rhotics. L is an example of a lateral, and R is an example of a rhotic.

Also: I looked a few things up, and I think I know what sonant and resonant refer to. A resonant is the same thing as a sonorant; a sonant is a voiced sound (e.g. b is voiced; p is unvoiced).

. . .
Again, I hope that helps. Let me know if there’s anything else, or if I’ve not explained something clearly enough.

Thanks again.

But what about… ‘glides’?

And I’ve just found something that calls ‘m’ and ‘n’ ‘liquids’, and uses the term ‘mute’ for what look like stops.

My phonetics book distinguishes been lateral and median. Is median the same as rhotic?

:open_mouth:

glides: n. A transitional speech sound articulated as the vocal organ moves toward or away from the articulation of another speech sound. As per Matthew S. DeMoss.
I think than a word like [size=150]ἐάν[/size] might be an example where the pronunciation glides from the one vowel to the other.
Mu and Nu are nasals, but they behave like liguids (for instance in the formation of the future tense) so they are usually grouped with them.
I think that a Mute is the same as a Stop.

Lateral and median. No idea. Lateral and median what?

I suppose I’m going to have to take back what I said in my first post about synonymous terms, for when I looked things up it turned out that for some things your phonology book was simply using different terms than I’m used to!

A glide is the same thing as a semivowel. If we consider Bert’s example [size=117]ἐάν

"If we consider Bert’s example e)a/n, notice how there is a ‘y’ sound between the first and second syllable as you change from e to a. "

This is classical example where one cannot drop his mother-tongue-pronunciation, for there shouldn’t be an “y” sound. You have to speak the vowels clearly and seperated, like “e-a-n”. You don’t say “ey-an”!

If you need an example for “y”, then better use “dia” (both used as word or preffix). Here “i” becomes close atached to “d” and you speak “dy-a”, not “d-i-a” like most people do.

Soon I’ll get all my books that use these terms (grammars etc.) and go through them and see if it makes any sense now.

Could you kindly elaborate? I think I may missing what you mean; I don’t see how one can avoid some hint of a ‘y’ sound between the two syllables unless you pause and have a glottal stop between them…
Thanks!

Through tough practice, you can avoid any “y” sound or glottal stop. Maybe the secret lies where the different vowels are located in your mother tongue and in Greek. In Greek both “e” and “a” are in the middle of your mouth, so you have not to go from back to front and by this unevoidable some “y” strikes. Anyway, better use a subtle glottal stop, which probalby most people wouldl not notice and bypass, (like Germans use in “sehen”) than any “y” that btw sounds so ugly.

Gosh, sorry I haven’t been checking this forum for the past week or so; I would have happily jumped in when this was a fresh thread. Looks like most of the questions have been answered, though.

One of the reasons there is confusion is that the terminology has changed over the past century or so. “Mute” is just a very old term for “stop” (or “plosive”), for instance. I also don’t think “sonorant” is used anymore: “resonant” is used instead, I believe.

I would provide a slightly different list from Raya’s:

Obstruent:
Raya’s description is pefect, except that I notice that nobody went on to define “affricate” (one of the sub-types of obstruent, which Raya lists). An affricate is something that starts out as a stop which is then immediately followed by a fricative sound. The English sound “ch” as in “church” is an affricate: it starts out as the stop “t” but then is followed by the fricative (and sibilant) “sh” (as in “show”). The English “j” sound starts out as a “d” and then it’s followed by “zh” (as in “vision”).

Approximant:
Raya listed glides (=semivowels) and liquids. I am not sure that “l” qualifies as an approximant since the tongue does make contact. Nor am I sure that all forms of “r” qualify. The kind of “r” that is used in English does, for sure, but something like a trilled “r” or even a single tap, probably doesn’t.

Resonant:
Quite simply, nasals, liquids, and semivowels (=glides). An interesting tidbit about all resonants is that in many languages they can become “syllabic” – i.e. they can be treated as vowels. Obviously the glides y and w can become the vowels i and u, but all the other resonants are often treated as vowels. For instance, in English, the second syllable of “rhythm” is (in many people’s speech) simply the resonant “m”. Most people would like to think that it is preceded by a short schwa, but that is not always true. Some people pronounce “mountain” with the second syllable being just the resonant “n” (usually, in that case, the “t” shows up just as a glottal stop: it’s hard to pronounce otherwise). And most Americans’ pronunciation of “little” will simply use a syllabic form of the resonant “l” as the second syllable.

Syllabic resonants are a very big part of the standard reconstruction of Proto Indo European and ablaut theory. None of the daughter languages have preserved the original syllabic resonants: they are either analyzed into some epenthetic vowel + a consonantal resonant (e.g. Latin “centum” where the “en” comes from a syllabic “n”), but a very common reflex of the nasal resonants especially is simply the vowel “a” (the hypothesis is that originally it was a nasalized “a” but that later on, the nasality was dropped): hence the Greek “alpha privative” (as in “athematic”, “amoral”), which began as simply “n-”, and explains why the Greek accusative singular in third declension nouns is sometimes “-n” (when it comes after a vowel), and sometimes “-a” (when it comes after a consonant): they were originally the same thing.

Syllabic resonants in Indo European studies are represented with a hollow circle underneath.

To get back to why so many of these terms are confusing: it is because they are not precise terms. If you want something more precise, you should learn about “distinctive feature theory”, which classifies sounds according to whether they do or not exhibit a certain feature, such as + or - (plus or minus) voice, ±rounding, ±continuant, etc. Still very valuable is the landmark book The Sound Pattern of English, by Noam Chomsky and Morris Hale, 1968. Distinctive feature theory was very successful in explaining many phenomena, including the ways in which children acquire language (it blew away Behaviorist theories of language acquisition, which make predictions that all turn out wrong). It turns out that sounds that share certain features will behave the same way in certain respects (sort of the way that elements in the same column in the periodic table will behave in the same way in certain respects).

The Sound Patterns of English is also a great book for understanding English Orthography, which turns out not to be as crazy as it looks. In fact, there was a study over 20 years ago that proved that non-native speakers of English, if taught English orthography through the theories from that book, can pronounce new English words they have never seen – often more accurately than a native speaker who was (mis)taught by our school system!