Pharr Lesson IX Exercises

[Lex]

Since William’s keys to Pharr on aoidoi.org skip the exercises for lesson 9, and since I hate not having feedback for exercises, I am posting my feeble attempts at translation here. Any constructive criticism is welcome. Thanks.

William,

One general question: I noticed that in Pharr, the word for “fatherland” is listed as πάτρη, where your solutions always have it as though it is πατρή. For instance, for the genitive you use πατρῆς, whereas Pharr uses πάτρης. What’s up with this? Is Pharr wrong? Are you wrong? Am I missing another funky accentuation rule?

NB: I know that I am doing the breathing marks on capital vowels wrong in Betacode. I am doing it this way so it looks tolerable both to those who have SPIonic installed, and those who don’t.

Translate:

1. ὁ ἑκηβόλος διὰ μαντοσύνην εἴρει βουλὰς τῶν θεῶν ’αργείοισιν.

This sharpshooter through the gift of prophecy tells the plans of the gods to the Argives.

2. οἱ ’ολύμπιοι θεοὶ εἶχον οἶκους ἐν ’ολύμπῳ.

These Olympian gods had houses on Olympus.

3. ὁ ἑκηβόλος διίφιλος ἔτευχε τοὺς ’αργείους ’αχαιούς τε ἑλώρια οἰωνοῖσιν.

This sharpshooter (who is) dear to Zeus made these Argives and Achaeans spoils for birds.

4. ’αχαιοὶ ’αργείοι τ’ ἔτευχον ἔργα κακὰ διὰ βουλὴν θεᾶς.

The Achaeans and Argives did wicked deeds on account of the will of the goddess.

5. κλυταιμνήστρη διὰ τὸν θυμὸν ἔτευχεν τὰ ἔργα δεινά.

Clytaemnestra did these terrible deeds on account of her heart.

6. πρίαμος λαός τε πριάμου ὤλεκον πολλοὺς ’αργείους.

Priam and the host of Priam destroyed many Argives.

7. τίς εἴρει τὰ σὰ ἔργα κακὰ πριάμῳ ;

Who says these (are) your evil deeds to Priam?

8. τὰ ἔργα ἐμά ἐστι καλά, οὕνεκα ἔτευχον βουλὰς θεῶν καὶ θεάων διὰ τὴν μαντοσύνην.

These deeds of mine are noble, because they fulfilled the wishes of the gods and goddesses through this gift of prophecy.

9. ἐπέμπομεν τὰ χρύσεα σκῆπτρα εἰς οἶκον πριάμῳ.

We sent these golden sceptres to the house of Priam.

10. ἐκαίετε τὰς πυρὰς δεινῇ κλαγγῇ ;

You (plural) burned the funeral pyres with a dreadful noise?

11. οὐχ ἥνδανε ἡ βουλὴ θεᾷ θαλάσσης θυμῷ ;

This plan did not please the goddess of the sea in her heart?

12. αἱ θεαὶ ἀείδουσι τὰ καλὰ ἔργα τῶν θεῶν, ἑκηβόλος δὲ βαίνει ἄλλῃ.

These goddesses sing of these noble deeds of these gods, but the sharpshooter goes elsewhere.

13. εἶχε πρίαμος ἀγλαὸν καὶ καλὸν οἶκον.

Priam had a splendid and beautiful home.

Translate:

1. Who brought these countless shining ransoms to the beautiful home of Priam?

τίς ἔπεμπε τὰ ἀπερείσῑ ἀγλάα ἄποινα οἶκῳ καλῷ πριάμου ;

2. The Achaeans and the Argives burned many funeral pyres in your beloved fatherland.

’αχαιοὶ ’αργείοι τ’ ἔκαιον πολλὰς πυρὰς ἐνὶ σῇ φίλῃ πάτρῃ.

3. Clytaemnestra was wicked and performed many dreadful deeds.

κλυταιμνήστρη ἦν κακὴ καὶ ἔτευχε πολλὰ δεινὰ ἔργα.

4. Through the gift of prophecy we tell many glorious deeds of the gods and goddesses who have Olympian homes.

διὰ μαντοσύνην εἴρομεν πολλὰ ἀγλάα ἔργα θεῶν καὶ θεάων, οἵ ἔχουσιν
οἴκους ’ολυμπίους.

5. My deeds are noble but yours are cowardly.

ἔργα ἐμά ἐστι καλά, σὰ δὲ κακά.

6. The gods sent an evil plague up through the camp and destroyed many Achaeans, because they dishonored the sharpshooter.

θεοὶ ἔπεμπον νοῦσον κακὴν ἀνὰ στρατὸν καὶ ὤλεκον πολλοὺς ’αχαιούς,
οὕνεκα ἑκηβόλος ἠτίμαζον.

7. It was not pleasing to Clytaemnestra in her wicked soul.

οὐχ ἡνδάνε κλυταιμνήστρῃ θυμῷ κακῷ.

[annis]

@Lex

William,

One general question: I noticed that in Pharr, the word for “fatherland” is listed as πάτρη, where your solutions always have it as though it is πατρή. For instance, for the genitive you use πατρῆς, whereas Pharr uses πάτρης. What’s up with this? Is Pharr wrong? Are you wrong? Am I missing another funky accentuation rule?

Doh!

Pharr is right, I am wrong. At least I’m consistent when I’m wrong, though.

I’ve fixed this in the key. Thanks for pointing it out.

If someone else doesn’t get to it first, I’ll take a look at your translations later today.

[Paul]

Hey Lex,

Nice job.

Comparing against my dusty Pharr notes, here’s my take on it.

Greek to English

1. OK. Maybe ‘of those/these gods’ rather than ‘of the gods’.
2. OK
3. OK. ἔτευχε is an imperfect (past progressive) and so could also be rendered ‘was making’.
4. OK
5. OK
6. OK
7. I’m not sure about ‘(are)’. I translate: “Who tells these your evil deeds to Priam?”.
8. OK
9. ‘for Priam’ rather than ‘of Priam’
10. OK
    11.OK. I had “Was this plan not pleasing…”
11. OK
12. OK

English to Greek

1. Perhaps use ἐφέρει (bear, carry, bring) instead of ἔπεμπε (send, conduct, escort). Also I don’t think use of
   dative οἶκῳ καλῷ is correct. If you intend to convey motion toward a place, e.g., “to the home of Priam”, then use the accusative either
   by itself or with a preposition like ἐις. The dative, as rendered by english to/for, indicates advantage, benefit, interest - the typical indirect object meanings.
   Had the english sentence read “…for the beautiful home of Priam”, then use of dative would be correct.

Finally, I think accent is ἀγλαὰ

2. OK
3. OK
4. OK
5. OK
6. ἑκηβόλον (want accusative here)
7. ἥνδανε (accent)

Cordially,

Paul

[Lex]

@Paul

Hey Lex,

Nice job.

Comparing against my dusty Pharr notes, here’s my take on it.

Greek to English

1. OK. Maybe ‘of those/these gods’ rather than ‘of the gods’.

You’re right. That’s what I get for starting with Attic, then switching to Epic.

@Paul

3. OK. ἔτευχε is an imperfect (past progressive) and so could also be rendered ‘was making’.

Hmmm… thanks for reminding me. Pharr seems to use the simple past tense for Lesson IX, even though he hasn’t presented aorists yet, so I guess I got caught up in that pattern. I should probably use “was x-ing” for imperfect verbs, just to remind myself of the difference.

@Paul

7. I’m not sure about ‘(are)’. I translate: “Who tells these your evil deeds to Priam?”.

I was very unsure about that one. I was thinking that somebody was accusing Priam of evil deeds, and another person was wondering who would dare say such a thing.

@Paul

9. ‘for Priam’ rather than ‘of Priam’

Doh! I’m still not used to thinking in inflections.

@Paul

English to Greek

Perhaps use ἐφέρει (bear, carry, bring) instead of ἔπεμπε (send, conduct, escort)

ἐφέρει or ἔφερε?

@Paul

Also I don’t think use of
dative οἶκῳ καλῷ is correct. If you intend to convey motion toward a place, e.g., “to the home of Priam”, then use the accusative either
by itself or with a preposition like ἐις. The dative, as rendered by english to/for, indicates advantage, benefit, interest - the typical indirect object meanings.
Had the english sentence read “…for the beautiful home of Priam”, then use of dative would be correct.

Yikes. I really screwed that one up. I should have known better. This is why I still need feedback!

Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it.

[Paul]

@lex

ἐφέρει or ἔφερε?

Hi Lex,

Sorry, my mistake. It would be ἔφερε.

We all need feedback!

Cordially,

Paul

[jabloom99]

I have been struggling with sentence 7 also:

τίς εἴρει τὰ σὰ ἔργα κακὰ Πριάμῳ;

The literal translation seems to be:

“Who speaks these your evil deeds to Priam?”

The translation itself doesn’t seem too difficult, it’s the semantic meaning that is perplexing (other posters on this thread seem to have had similar concerns). Other times, when I produce a result that makes no sense, I recheck my work and find a mistake. This time though, it looks right.

I read this as Priam himself speaking to someone (hence σὰ - ‘your’), and Priam is asking who the hearer (who had apparently just spoken to Priam) is who has the audacity to speak of the evil deeds to Priam. But this just doesn’t seem to make much sense.

Would it make more sense if the first word were τί instead of τίς - thus “Why does he speak these your evil deeds to Priam?”

Alternatively, has anyone who has made the push through the Iliad encountered a similar phrase that this practice sentence is supposed to prepare us for?

[Polyidos]

@jabloom99

The literal translation seems to be:

“Who speaks these your evil deeds to Priam?”

I read this as Priam himself speaking to someone (hence σὰ - ‘your’), and Priam is asking who the hearer (who had apparently just spoken to Priam) is who has the audacity to speak of the evil deeds to Priam. But this just doesn’t seem to make much sense.

With these isolated sentences in Pharr’s exercises it can often be difficult to establish a reasonable context. I took it as being spoken by a third person, addressing the evil deed doer, and asking who is reporting his evil deeds to the king. Thus I translated it as:

“Who tells these evil deeds of yours to Priam?”

Since Pharr glosses the verb as “speak, say, tell” I opted for “tell” as a more direct translation. Also, one often needs to use a slightly different syntactic construct in the translation to obtain smooth English. Thus, I needed to include both the demonstrative and possessive elements but as your literal translation shows, a direct syntactic parallel in English does not always result in a desirable style. So, I bent it a little bit to give “of yours” as the possessive element.

At the time I worked these exercises I was a participant in a Textkit-sponsored study group and the guide accepted my answer as written. While perhaps not definitive, the guide was a highly respected member of the Textkit community so I feel justified in offering my answer as a reasonable solution.

I hope this helps.

[MaverickNH]

Lesson 9, 43 Translate #5 had me guessing with ἔτευχεν - ἔτευχε with a (ν). In The Iliad, the one time it appears the word following begins with a vowel. But in #5 the words following are τά ἀργα. So I’m not sure why ἔτυχεν τά έργα rather than ἔτευχε τά ἔργα.

[mwh]

Meter is often a factor with movable nu. But unfortunately in these exercises Pharr ignores meter altogether, so ἔτευχεν or ἔτευχε should be equally acceptable here. (Not ἔτυχεν, a different verb, as I expect you realize.)

[Euknemide_Achaiο]

No idea where the original poster now is in Pharr if they’re still at it, but here’s a PDF that contains all lesson translations up to chapter 11, and then all Greek to English lessons up to the end (chapter 53). As for chapters 13-18 in English to Greek, we’ve gone through them quite a bit at this link:

http://discourse.textkit.com/t/looking-for-help-revewing-pharrs-homeric-greek-english-to-greek-exercises/18526/1

I also posted my answers for chapters 19 and 20, but as of yet nobody has taken a look at my versions. I’ll be getting around to reviewing these lessons and proceeding forward in about a week if I continue my pace of reviewing a lesson a day.