Perfect Active Participle

Does any one know why there is no Perfect Active Participle in Latin. How reasonable would you consider the idea of formation thereof from the perfect active stem + present participle of ire. I am not saying that Latin should have it, as I love absolutes, and would welcome alternative suggestions. Since the perfect active terminations are -i, -isti, -it; -imus, -istis, -erunt; those of ire ii isti etc. is it so ridiculous for the boy who had observed thoroughly those naval chinks was weakened by Juno’s rage

puellus illas navis rimas perspexiens Iunonis ob iram affectus est

more examples

the doctor entrusted the herbal remedy to benissimus’ relatives who had demanded it fiercely

medicus benissimi ferociter poposceuntibus propinquis herbosa remedia commisit

~E

the perfect participle is active if the verb is deponent, so not every perfect participle is passive.

Episcope mi,

You asked on a different thread about my trip to Oxford. I’m not sure which thread that was right now, so I’ll respond here. (I hope you don’t mind.)

It’s quite well, actually! I’m still here, still engaging Latin in most of my waking hours. It’s quite the life.

If you have more specific questions, there’s always PM.

David

PS - On topic, I think your suggestion is a not unreasonable one… especially given the suggestive appearance of ire’s perfect system.

Hence:

laudaviens
laudaveuntis
laudaveunti

etc?

Is syncope permissible? laudaunti, etc, having praised?

It’s an intriguing idea.

Extremely intriguing. Hat’s off, Episcope; this is a marvelous thought, and very cleverly deduced. I’m sure any diehard Latinist possessing even a vague acquaintance with the Greek verbal system, while dismissing the “unnecessary” complexity of the endless stream of participles, will secretly long for a similar freedom of expression in his own Roman tongue.

When Latin resurges as a widely spoken language (and it will), let us be sure to recall this thought, and thereby augment and glorify our newly reborn sermon with all power and wisdom granted us.

Viuas, Episcope.

Considering how many educated Romans knew Greek, I wonder if any of them made similar efforts to create the perfect active participle in their own tongue, just as certain educated Englishmen have tried to impose Latin grammar on English (the ban on split infinitives).

I am glad that you too desire this form once in a while bellum, GGG, Luce.

I have been thinking and die Sprachgefuhl mir sagte, “perspexiens” sei 1/gut.

Just as we have a perfect active participle [in meaning!] for deponents, select verbs of course, I believe that a perfect active participle in form should at least be considered for those verbs which undergo reduplication in the perfect system, on the grounds that they sound like 1/[two disyllabic words at the end of a dactylic pentameter] (bollocks!)

cecidiens? pepereuntes? poposceuntibus? :sunglasses:

Since oxford is being discussed here, I would like to mention that I am going to 1/oxford in about a week for my Classics interviews. I think I will bring up this matter because I am really curious to see what those Latinists the best in the world think of it. I may have no opportunity in the future. I will make sure however not to mention my disgust at the perfect of fero, coming of course from a different route. I propose feferi, whereupon one might naturally participlicate fefereuntia…tamen, although the inanimate objects had endured…. Oh silly me! My hand at first compelled me to type “eundured” there! quid mali?

bellum, can you please remind me as to how exactly you ended up there at Oxford - I know that it is something to do with your Brown University :astonished: I am glad to see that you are immersing yourself in Latinity! ójala que yo pudiera hacer idem ac tute! quid tandem mirifici?

~E

E., i have the answers to your questions. let me know when you’re up in Cam.

~D

It does have something to do with my (John) Brown University…let’s see. There’s an organization called the CCCU which consists of a lot of private universities, including mine. Among the semester abroad programs that the CCU offers is one to Oxford through Wycliffe Hall, a permanent hall that became a full partner in the university about ten years ago. Since we are studying through Wycliffe, we receive full privileges as visiting students, unlike a number of other Oxford study programs. For Michaelmas term, then, we sixty American students have been running wildly around Oxford when we are not laboring assiduously in the libraries. Multum vero mirifici fuit et multum quoque didici. But, sadly, I’m returning to the US in a couple weeks - on the 20th. After I leave Oxford on the 12th, I’m going to London for a couple days and then on to Paris for a week.

-David