I was reading that Passive Intransitive verbs cannot be used personally, but can be used impersonally. First, could somebody clarify what an intransitive verb is; and second, could somebody explain what form they sould be in when passive. Thanks so much!
An intransitive verb is one that does not take a direct object. For example, Sleep. You can sleep, but you cannot ‘sleep the dog’.
Thus: ‘Dormio’ is ‘I sleep’ but you cannot use ‘Dormior’ because it comes out as nonsense: ‘I am slept’
So you wouldn’t really ever see this verb used in the passive. Same thing applies to any verb which doesn’t take a direct object.
However that impersonal use which you’re talking about I don’t recall exactly since I don’t have my grammar with me, but I suspect you would be using an intransitive verb in the passive third person with a dative of reference to get the same idea across such as: ‘Mihi dormitur’ = ‘It is slept by me’ or more like english ‘I am sleeping’.
This verb is kind of a bad example, since I don’t think I’ve ever seen it used impersonally, but there you have it.
impersonal is the use of verb which conveys either lack of knowledge of whom practices the action, distance from the agent, the correct way of doing something, and many others like these, not to mention the enphasis in the action so common. It is done by third person passives.
So you wouldn’t really ever see this verb used in the passive. Same thing applies to any verb which doesn’t take a direct object.
Neiter is true. The latter for what I have just said, the former in a situation like “one sleeps” would have to be rendered. (dormitur)
like “somnium habetur, dum dormitur”
also remenber that “sic itur ad astra!”
but I suspect you would be using an intransitive verb in the passive third person with a dative of reference to get the same idea across such as: ‘Mihi dormitur’ = ‘It is slept by me’ or more like english ‘I am sleeping’.
No dative of reference, just the pure verb. Tough verbs with explicity subject may also be made impersonal “bellatum est a pyrro” which I have no idea how to render in english.
Portuguese and spanish have preserved these same constructions so that if know one of them, you may have a better frame of reference
Thanks for all the help. I think I understand now.
That makes a lot of sense – a while ago I was puzzling over “pugnatum est” and I ended up thinking of it as having an implicit subject, but now it seems much more natural to see it as an impersonal use of the passive. In English, I guess you could say something like “there was fighting (going on).”
But about “sic itur ad astra,” how should it best understood if this is an impersonal use. I ask because I’ve seen translated such as “one goes” which are plainly personal, just indefinite. Other translations are along the lines of “thus is the way [= going] to the stars” and I’m guessing the latter type of translation is closer, in spirit, to the Latin – is that right?
Other translations are along the lines of “thus is the way [= going] to the stars” and I’m guessing the latter type of translation is closer, in spirit, to the Latin – is that right?
Yes this is really closer to the meaning. it goes on the line of the correct way to do something like “oculos verbum scribitur oculos, sed non oclos, puer pigerrime!”
it is better to compare in english with “…the way (to go) to the stars” than to compare to “going”
In English, I guess you could say something like “there was fighting (going on).”
thanks for the sugestion!
Thank you, Tertius Robertus.