Nonnulli

Latin Learning Latin
1

I’ve heard a lot of people using nonnulli as a partitive article.

i.e.
Do you want some apples?
Visne nonnulla mala?

However, I think this use is wrong.

I don’t think nonnulli was used as a partitive.

I think it meant some in the following sense:

Some people still speak Welsh.
Not many but some.


This is different from the partitive.

I was wondering if aliquii was used in the partitive?

i.e. Visne aliqua mala?

Specifically, how would you say:

Some are good and some are bad

I look forward to any info you might have.

Thanks,

David

2

I’ve heard a lot of people using nonnulli as a partitive article.

i.e.
Do you want some apples?
Visne nonnulla mala?

If it were a partitive, wouldn’t it be, “Visne nonnulla malorum?” Considering that “nonnulli” is a compound of “non” and “nulli” and that the adjective “nullus” is a partitive word (as “Allen and Greenough’s New Latin Grammar” calls it http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.346.html), I disagree with you in thinking that it has some other special use.

I think it meant some in the following sense:

Some people still speak Welsh.
Not many but some.

I think these sentences would still require a partitive genitive. (“Nonnulli hominum…”) Would you explain how you think this is different from the partitive genitive?

Specifically, how would you say:

Some are good and some are bad

Although there are many ways of translating this sentence, I would say, “Alii sunt boni et alii mali.”

3

Thanks for your post.

I think you answered my question.

I now realize that the word partitive has to do with parts but when I think of the partitive I think of the words some and few.

i.e.
some apples / a few apples.

or examples in other languages:

des pommes
algunas manzanas
alcune mele
manche Äpfel

I think this is different from some of.
i.e.
Some of the apples are red.

So would the following two sentences use a different word for some in Latin?

There are some apples on the table.
Some of the apples are green.

Look forward to any info you have.

David

4

Yes, there is a difference in Latin between “there are some apples” and “some of the apples.”

sunt nonnulla mala - there are some apples (an indeterminate amount)
nonnulla malorum (or possibly nonnulla ex malis) - some of the apples (an indeterminate portion of a set group of apples)

me diligenter doce, quaeso, si ullas mendas feci

5

I started this posted several months ago.

Reading Ritchie’s Fabilae Faciles tonight, I came across this:

alii…, alii… = some…, other…
So…

Alii sunt magni, alii parvi. Alii sunt negri, alii candidi.

I never felt comfortable with nonulli to render some.
Any comments?

David

:stuck_out_tongue:

6

‘Nonnulli’ in the sense you’ve described is definitely correct, and means simply the same as ‘aliqui.’ The difference in usage is that ‘nonnulli’ can mean the barest few, to a great deal, while ‘aliqui’ is much more restrictive; this barely perceptible difference comes from the litteral meaning of “non nulli.” Nonnulli homines adhuc Latine loquuntur, for example, is extremely common and totally classical.

7

Nonnulli homines adhuc Latine loquuntur,

Unus eorum volo esse ni senex ad haec studia serius veni

8

Haud serius, amice; tempus est semper.

9

Ok, so just to make sure I get this straight…

There are some apples on the table could be rendered as

Sunt aliqua mala super mensam.

Is that a proper use of aliqui ?

What do you think about the use of alii…, alii… to mean some…, others…
David