Need help from a German speaker

[Aurēliānus_Agricola]

Hello all,

As some of you already know, I’m annotating a version of Robinson Crusoe in Latin. The original version is in German, from Robinson der Jüngere, and I found something I don’t understand no matter what.

The Latin text:

Fragōre audītō, barbarī ē > caespitibus > ad terram prōcidunt quasi omnēs ūnā occīsī

The word caespitibus makes no sense here, so I checked against the original German version, which is:

In dem Augenblikke, daß der Knal gehört wurde, stürzten die meisten Wilden von ihrem > Rasensize > zur Erde, als wenn sie mit einem mahle alle wären erschossen worden.

They’re supposed to be on the beach, and came in canoes.

I searched the German word, and it seems like the modern nominative spelling is Rasensitz, and I only guess the meaning, which would be something like “garden seats” (thanks Google images). But would they really have come with seats in canoes? What does that really mean in that context? Is it some idiomatic use? I also checked into the French an English version, to no avail, either the word was omitted, either it was literally translated.

I guess I can’t let the word caespitibus in the text as it’s meaningless in this context, but I need to understand what it’s really about.

Any help would be appreciated.

[classicist]

Wasn’t Robinson Crusoe originally written in English, by the author Daniel Defoe? Why not just refer to the English version?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe

[jeidsath]

The introduction says that he translated it from Campe’s German:

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/73030/pg73030-images.html

I think that in 19th century German Rasensitze can mean “grass seats = seats in the grass”

Here’s Titus Andronicus II.3:

The green leaves quiver with the cooling wind
And make a chequer’d shadow on the ground;
Under their sweet shade, Aaron, let us sit,
…
Let us sit down and mark their yelping noise;

This 1870 German translation by Georg Reimer gives that last line as “Vom Rasensitze lauschen dem Gebell”. Seats in the grass under the leaves, not lawn chairs.

So I’d think “von ihrem Rasensitze zur Erde” is “from their sitting-places in the turf to the ground” with “e caespitibus ad terram” a very literal translation.

[Aurēliānus_Agricola]

Wasn’t Robinson Crusoe originally written in English, by the author Daniel Defoe? Why not just refer to the English version?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe

Robinson der Jüngere is a rewriting of Defoe’s version, not a translation. There may be some faithful passages, but I don’t really count on that.

By the way, when I wrote my first message, I had forgotten that I had a totally different Latin version, but it also states caespitibus.

I think that in 19th century German Rasensitze can mean “grass seats = seats in the grass”

It’s even the second half of the 18th century, to be exact.

Here’s Titus Andronicus II.3:

The green leaves quiver with the cooling wind
And make a chequer’d shadow on the ground;
Under their sweet shade, Aaron, let us sit,
…
Let us sit down and mark their yelping noise;

This 1870 German translation by Georg Reimer gives that last line as “Vom Rasensitze lauschen dem Gebell”. Seats in the grass under the leaves, not lawn chairs.

That would make sense, indeed. And now that I think about it, the text also talks about bushes a little earlier.

So I’d think “von ihrem Rasensitze zur Erde” is “from their sitting-places in the turf to the ground” with “e caespitibus ad terram” a very literal translation.

Yes, that’s what puzzled me. It literally means “they fell from the grass to the ground”, which is absurd because the grass is already on the ground.

So I have two main options

• Either let the text as it is and maybe add a note to explain what it really means. The downside is that the text itself still won’t mean anything.
• Either fix the text with something like “ē sēde suā in caespitibus”. The downside is that means editing the text, although it has no historical value.
• I can imagine an in-between with “ē [sēde suā in] caespitibus”. The downside is that it’s not quite aesthetic nor clear.
• Just for a recall, the English translation has “ē sēde suā” only, totally omitting the grass part. It’s lighter, but loses meaning.

[Jean_Putmans]

The German Dictionary of Grimm (https://woerterbuchnetz.de/?sigle=DWB&lemid=R00852)

RASENSITZ, m. sitz von rasen gebildet:
wenn die laute klang
vom rasensitz in dickbelaubten linden.
Chr. E. v. Kleist (1765) 159.

So that‘s a seat made up of grass

The 19th cent. German-English Dictionary Muret-Sanders) has Rasensitz and Rasenbank (https://archive.org/details/muretsandersenzy04mure/page/1625/mode/1up): turf- (or grassy) bank or seat.

[jeidsath]

My preference as a reader would be an explanative note that references the original German. Anyone reading Latin is enough of an antiquary to be interested in “the original text”, even for something like this.

[ClassyCuss]

I bet (don’t ask how much!) it means, "With the resounding gunshot, all the creatures fell [or came crashing down] to the ground from their nests in the brush/shrubbery (meaning the brushland where the beach met the forest).

[Aurēliānus_Agricola]

Thank you all for your answers, I’ll do my best to make a good use of them.

[Atqueobsecro]

I bet (don’t ask how much!) it means, "With the resounding gunshot, all the creatures fell [or came crashing down] to the ground from their nests in the brush/shrubbery (meaning the brushland where the beach met the forest).

Perfect. I’m from Germany nd I appreciate your precision.