more style questions: cum preposition, tan bene or ita

Latin Learning Latin
1

written on phone

hi, a few more questions from colebourne:

friendly terms with the Romans.
I translated as
Esse amicus cum Romanis.
the author has amicus Romanorum.

is there any difference, substantively or stylistic, in the Latin?

  1. I have kept this oath, so well that…
    i had
    hac iusiurandum conservavi tam bene ut
    the author has:
    hac iusiurandum conservavi ita ut

again which is best?

yours Robin

2
  1. amicus cum Romanis is “a friend along with the Romans”—wrong meaning. amicus Romanis might do, though, but wouldn’t necessarily be reciprocal.
  2. tam bene is fine (“in such a good way”), though could be a bit overdone. (hac typo for hoc)
3

This post discusses a parallel topic that might be of interest as well, which is what might be the role of the genitive in amicus Romanorum, going in reverse from the Latin back to English.
Grammars show that the genitive has many uses; the number of uses can make the eyes glaze over and can obscure what would be an obvious translation if we did not have to consider all those options. We would give the phrase amicus Roamnorum its obvious translation if we applied what we first learnt about the genitive, its use as possessive. This would translate amicus Romanorum as “the Roman’s friend.” This phrase sort of denotes possession, except that the Romans do not possess or own the friend. They do possess the gift of the friend, that is, the friendship, but not as owners, because the gift is theirs at the pleasure of the friend and can be withdrawn.

But even as the genitive of possession, amicus Romanorum can be ambiguous. The phrase can mean “I hold the Romans as friends” or can mean “The Romans hold me as friends.”

In the Objective Genitive the genitive is the object of the transaction, “I am a friend to the Romans.” When we say, “I am the Romans’ friend,” we usually mean it in the objective sense, “I give my friendship to the Romans; they possess
my friendship.” In the Objective Genitive there is a sense of agency sustaining the relationship; it is not a definition to be considered good for all times, as would be with the phrase, “Ralph’s father.” As another instance, we might say, “The USA is a friend to the Kurds.” Maybe that’s a bad example.

In the Subjective Genitive the genitive is the agent of the transaction, “The Romans hold me as friends do.”

In the phrase amicus Romanorum, as in other instances of objective genitives, we see a merging of sorts between the possessive and the objective genitives.

Woodcock in A New Latin Syntax §72,I,(3) writes, “Neither from the Objective Genitive is the idea of possession wholly absent…”
Allen and Greenough §348,Noteff write, “The distinction between the Possessive…and the Objective Genitive
is very unstable and is often lost sight of.”