Looking for some feedback on a translation

Greek Learning Greek
1

Hello, first-time poster here and I’m looking for some feedback on a translation of mine. For context, I’ve been studying Greek for about a year and I am currently in university at post-graduate level (Byzantine Studies), so I apologise in advance for the mass of errors. Any feedback or advice is massively appreciated, I am incredibly eager to learn. :smiley:

(the text is a 13th-century letter from Patriarch George Kyrpios II to Theodora Raoulaina, an imperial stateswoman who was related to both the Kantakouzenoi and Palaiologoi)

  1. Τῇ Ῥαουλαίνῃ

Ἄριστα ἔχον ἔστι τὸ γράμμα, καὶ πᾶσαν χάριν νέμοι σοι κύριος ὁ θεός· ὁ γὰρ τοῦ λόγου ῥυθμὸς τό τε συνεστραμμένον τῶν νοημάτων, καὶ ἡ κατὰ τέχνην συνθήκη, θυμηδίας με πάσης πεπλήρωκεν.

Ὡς πολλά σου ὑπερεύχομαι ἀγαθὸν ποίημα τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ θεοῦ, ὅτι τῶν δεόντων οὐδέν σε παρῆλθεν, ὅ μή σοι ἠκριβωμένως ἐξεπονήθη· ἀπολαύοις τῶνδε μου τῶν εὐχῶν ἅς σοι πρόσφατον ηὐξάμην, ἃς δὴ καὶ τὸν ἔμπροσθεν χρόνον ἀεί· αἳ δέ εἰσι, πολίτιν σε τῆς ἄνω πόλεως γενέσθαι σὺν πᾶσι τοῖς ἀπ ̓ αἰῶνος εὐαρεστήσασι τῷ σῷ θεῷ καὶ δεσπότῃ, εὐημεροῦσαν δὲ καὶ μακροημερεύουσαν καὶ τὸν ἐνταῦθα δολιχεύειν βίον.

Προσεπεύχομαι δέ σοι καὶ ταῦτα· προσθείη κύριος ὁ θεὸς σοφίαν τῇ σῇ σοφίᾳ καὶ ἐπιστήμην τῇ ἐπιστήμῃ τῶν λόγων σου, ὡς ἂν μὴ μόνον τῶν πάλαι γυναικῶν ὑπεράνω φαίνῃ τῶν ἐπὶ λογικῇ παιδεύσει γνωριζομένων, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοὺς πλείους τῶν ἄλλων ὅσοι ἐπὶ μέγα σοφίας ἀρθέντες εἰσίν.

Οὕτω γένοιτο ταῖς τῆς ὑπεράγνου θεοτόκου, τοῦ προφήτου προδρόμου, τῶν θεοκηρύκων ἀπο­ στόλων, τῶν μεγάλων ἱεραρχῶν Γρηγορίου καὶ Βασιλείου, πρὸς δὲ καὶ Ἰωάννου τοῦ τῆς οἰκουμένης φωστῆρος, καὶ πάντων ἁγίων σεπταῖς παρακλήσεσι.

To Raoulaina,

This letter is the best in its kind, even the Lord God wishes that you distribute all of its beauty. For the rhythm of the prose having been brought into a close form of thought, and the art according to its composition, filled me entirely with gladness of heart.

I frequently pray for the good deeds of God on your behalf, because you disregarded nothing of that which is rightful, or that which is not exactly perfected to you; I have prayed that you will benefit from these recent prayers of mine to you, and those from the previous time. This is you, a female citizen of the upper city who, with help of these ancient things (lit. from/of ancient time), has become well pleasing to your god and master, and you prolong this here life, living a happy and long life.

I pray besides you for this, may you bestow to the lord god your wisdom and the knowledge of your words. Since not only do you appear (ἂν + 2.s.subj.?) above women of ancient times because of your logical education (making this known), but are also full of other great wisdoms which have been joined together.

In this way may you be given the consolation of the immaculate mother of god, of the preceding prophets, of the heraldic apostles, of the great priests Gregory and Basil, of John light of the world, and of all that is holy and august.

2

Welcome! Does the letter of Raoulaina, so thoroughly praised by Gregory, survive?

Since this passage is a bit long and there are several issues with the grammar—understandable, given that you have only studied Greek for a year!—I suggest that we divide it up into smaller chunks for discussion. Others might jump in. A few notes on the first paragraph:

Ἄριστα ἔχον ἔστι τὸ γράμμα: “the/your letter is excellent.” Where do you get “in its kind?” ἔχει is often modified by an adverb, as in καλῶς ἔχει (it’s going well). ἄριστα is an adverb here, modifying ἔχον.

καὶ πᾶσαν χάριν νέμοι σοι κύριος ὁ θεός: νέμοι is an optative of wish, “and may the Lord God extend to you all grace.” Here is a key point of grammar: the optative without ἄν usually expresses a wish (“the optative of wish”), as here (νέμοι σοι κύριος, may the Lord distribute to you) or below in: ἀπολαύοις τῶνδε μου τῶν εὐχῶν (“may you have the benefit of these prayers of mine”), προσθείη κύριος ὁ θεὸς σοφίαν τῇ σοφίᾳ, “may the Lord God add wisdom to your wisdom,” and οὕτω γένοιτο (“thus may it happen/be”). [That’s a lot of prayers! :slight_smile:]

τό συνεστραμμένον τῶν νοημάτων: the neuter participle with a definite article can have an abstract sense. A common example (from Thucydides) is τὸ δεδιός, “fear”. Similarly here the substantivized neuter participle has an abstract sense, “the (cohesive, intricate) twisting together of thoughts,” “the unity of meaning.”

There are three subjects of πεπλήρωκεν: ὁ…ῥυθμος, τό…συνεστραμμένον, and ἡ…συνθήκη. They are connected by particles. Note that τε in τό τε συνεστραμμένον is equivalent to καὶ τὸ συνεστραμμένον. τε is an enclitic and comes after the word it coordinates; καί comes before the word it coordinates.

ἡ κατὰ τέχνην συνθήκη: “the composition according to (the rules of) art,” i.e. “the artful/skillful composition”

θυμηδίας…πάσης: has filled me with all joy. (πάσης is an adjective modifying θυμηδίας).

πεπλήρωκεν: “filled me” as you have it is fine in Byzantine prose like this, when the perf ind can be used for the simple (“aoristic”) past. This historical development started in early Roman times (eg. occasionally in the New Testament) or earlier, where it characterizes lower register texts. It can also be a true (“resultative”) perfect, “has filled me.” The latter (true perfect) is more likely here.

Does that make more sense? Let me know if I can clarify anything about my comments.

I suggest reviewing the uses of the optative in your textbook. The optative of wish (i.e. the “optative” in the true sense) is common in Byzantine prose of this sort. Did you study with an Attic Greek textbook for your first year?

3

Hello :slight_smile: Thank you so much for your feedback it is massively appreciated and it’s helped me recognise a couple of fundamental errors in my approach to translations. I have been learning from Attic Greek Textbooks (a mixture of Reading Greek & Greek to GCSE), however, because I’ve never been officially taught my current course is a very basic beginner’s module. My knowledge of any Greek beyond the Indicative Active is entirely self-taught, as you can probably tell by my translation.

In regard to any letters from Raoulaina, we, unfortunately, have none, in fact, there is only one surviving letter collection written by a Byzantine woman (out of around 15’000 letters). I can send you a translated PDF (w/ parallel Greek) of this collection if you want, it’s from an aristocratic nun called Eirene-Eulogia Choumnaina Palaiologina.

I do have a question regarding approaching texts as a beginner, do you recommend any specific steps in order to break sentences down?

4

Happy to help. Too bad Raoulaina’s letters have been lost.

As regards breaking down sentences, my main suggestion is to always try to read the words in the order that they come, as best you can—not hunting for verb, subject, etc. That is, form a habit of reading left to right, not in broken pieces like a puzzle. Sorry I don’t have a better answer to offer. I’d recommend working through a textbook thoroughly (the ones you mentioned will do the trick) and building a solid foundation with the grammar. Especially since it sounds like you may want to eventually work on untranslated, possibly unedited, Byzantine texts. That will require deep competency in the grammar.

Don’t hesitate to ask questions about Greek or Latin on Textkit. You will usually get decent answers. Good luck!