Hello all.
I was just about to buy the teacher’s book and noticed it has the answers for pars I and II. So then I thought, perhaps I should buy pars II. Then I thought, hang on, I’ll need exercitia II as well. All of a sudden I have 60€ worth of books in my amazon basket.
Am I going over the top or is this stuff essential to progress to actual reading?
I’ll bet there’s a second book of Colloquia as well.
Paul.
There is also a companion to part 2 aka Roma Aeterna. The introduction to the companion to Roma Aeterna says:
“Hans Ørberg’s Rōma Aeterna ……begins with Ørberg’s own admirable prose (Caps. XXXVI to XL). Cap. XXXVI helps the instructor assess student strengths and weaknesses. This chapter effortlessly brings students back to their Latin after the inevitable break from Latin over summer or winter vacations. It also introduces critical new syntax. Students first learn, for example, about subordinate clauses in indirect discourse in Cap. XXXVI. Caps. XXXVII–XL offer a prose retelling of the early books of Vergil’s (Pūblius Vergilius Marō) Aeneid. These chapters are a good bridge from Familia Rōmāna to the unadapted selections in Rōma Aeterna. A prose narrative, instead of verse, is prudent: although students are often enticed into reading more Latin through the offer of poetry, without a solid foundation in Latin prose, they will not be able to appreciate the special voice that Latin verse offers. The prose is in part closely modeled on Vergil’s language, interspersed with verse excerpts from the Aeneid.
Caps. XLI–XLV introduce the Roman historian Livy’s (Titus Līvius) ab Urbe Conditā. Ørberg’s adaptation enables the student to become gradually accustomed to Livy’s prose style. The Latin grows increasingly less adapted until Cap. XLV.222, after which the student reads unadapted—although not unabridged—Livy. Cap. XLV is the transitional chapter, and, if one chapter is to introduce students to unadapted ancient texts, it is a good place to start. While the predominant author for Caps. XLI to LI is Livy—either in his own words, Ørberg’s adaptation, or the periochae (later summaries of the lost books of Livy’s history)—we are also introduced to other authors who have contrib-uted to our understanding of Roman history: Eutropius (Caps. XLVI and LIII), Aulus Gellius (Cap. XLVII), Cornēlius Nepōs (Cap. XLIX). While the styles of these writers differ from Livy’s, the change from chapter to chapter will not present any obstacle to the reader. At the end of Cap. LI, however, we are introduced to Sallust (Sallustius Crīspus), presented, as Quintilian advised, after the reader has a good amount of experience with Latin prose. Sallust is, as Quintilian warned, more difficult to understand. Some rudimentary remarks, not only about individual style but also about generic expectations, can be found in the section on style at the end of this introduction as well as in the Points of Style sections in individual chapters. “
You may also find this helpful also from the companion:
“ Rōma Aeterna was composed as a continuation of Familia Rōmāna. Although some readers will want—and have the necessary time—to read the text cover to cover, the companion is designed to facilitate selection. A good deal of repetition in the reading notes is one result: the companion does not take for granted that everyone has read and remembered everything that went before, and the notes will generally reference the chapter (of Rōma Aeterna or Familia Rōmāna) where a concept is discussed. Since the two parts of Lingua Latina (Familia Rōmāna and Rōma Aeterna) were written sequentially, chapters are referred to by number alone. “
So it’s your choice whether you read any, some or all of part 2. But if you decide to read something else you will need to learn the grammar covered in the early chapters of Roma Aeterna. If you have found familia roma helpful then continuing onto Roma Aeterna seems like a good plan. Whether you read all of it will depend largely on whether you are interested in the texts offered or want to go your own way.
Hope this is helpful
Thanks. Another 36 euros.
I’ll have to wait to see how the doppler test goes on tuesday.
Paul.
is this stuff essential to progress to actual reading
The companions were written by Jeanne Neumann in 2016-2017, some years after Orberg’s death. Whether or not they fulfill the need of students (I don’t know, I don’t own them), they certainly fill the need of the publisher to rake in more $$ from a series that was already popular without them. All this English material detracts from the “per se” part of the method I think, and from Orberg’s vision. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unhelpful. On the other hand, time reading about a language in English is going to be low-efficiency time, compared to time reading the language or working in it. The magic of LLPSI, like immersion, is that it forces you to stick to high-efficiency activities.
The assistance exercise to Lingua Latina [Pars I, I’m only on lesson 27 after picking up LLPSI again from scratch in May after a long break from Latin] that I find most helpful is reading the lessons aloud to my kids and translating as I go. Kids, however, are likely the most expensive companion material, unless you’ve got some hanging around already.
EDIT: Not essential, but I liked all of Colloquia Personarum and – maybe even more – the little of Luigi Miraglia’s Fabulae Syrae that I’ve read. Going beyond that, I find that the Vulgate is pretty easy, and free, but I can just look at the Greek. I also beat my head against Caesar, but it’s not very efficient. There are parts that are obvious after 4-5 read-throughs, but it’s still a small minority of the text.
Ørberg wrote a companion to Familia Romana called “Latine Disco student’s manual” so he obviously thought that some further explanation of the grammar was necessary. The Companion expands on his work but generally follows the principle of encouraging students to understand the grammar in terms of examples used in the main text.
I think most students would struggle to understand the grammar simply by reading the main text, except perhaps in the very early chapters. For those working on their own the companions must be especially useful.
Having said that clearly people learn in different ways and everyone has to opt for what works for them, but I think too much is likely to be missed if insufficient attention is paid to the grammar. But, grammar is a means to an end not an end in itself.
I have the Latine Disco, which is the English translation (with substantial English-specific additions throughout) of his “Enchiridion Discipulorum”. Since I already have the grammar terminology from Greek, I don’t personally find it much help. But I can certainly see its usefulness for others.
Notice, however, the advice on method on pg. 8 of Disco [I’ve attached pg. 8 at the bottom of the page]: read the chapter and learn the grammar from the chapter before reading the Disco commentary, “for the Latin text is designed to train you to make your own linguistic observations.” This is not only important, but central.
Here is a review that makes the point that the Companions have a different conception about method:
https://scholaeinterretiales.wordpress.com/teach-yourself-latin/
…Lastly an English Companion based on the English Enchīridion discipulōrum has been recently published, I really do not like it because it goes against the method proposed by Ørberg as it gives “an explicit layout of Familia Rōmāna’s inductively-presented grammar” (sic), it contains the Latin-English Vocabulary and the Grammatica Latīna. Personally I see no reason to buy it, but take a look at the preview and decide if that’s the way you prefer to learn.
Now it’s obviously fine to use other methods than LLPSI. It’s fine to mix other methods into LLPSI. (In fact, it’s great.) But Orberg thought this linguistic self-training was not only important, but fundamental to his method. So it is necessary to be clear to students about what the Orberg method is, what it is meant to do, and how the publisher may in fact be presenting something different in the never-ending quest to make $$ off of a popular textbook series.
Here is pg. 8 of Disco. I notice that it also suggests some Latin selections that can be started after pars I, instead of going on immediately (or ever) to pars II.
So, somewhat “debatable”. I’m getting toward the end of the colloquia book, but there’s still a way to go in the other books.
I’ll revisit this thread when the time comes.
Cheers.
Paul.
Decision made. Now that a litre of fuel for the car costs 2.08 euros and a trolley of shopping 200 euros, I’m not going to be able to afford the luxury of more Latin stuff.