licet and licebit in concessive clauses

Latin Learning Latin
1

Here’s some instances of licet I’ve run across in Ovid:

Amores 1.2.45:
Nōn possunt, licet ipse velīs, cessāre sagittae.
Your arrows cannot cease, even should you yourself wish it.
That one matches the examples in my grammar books, so I’m not concerned with that one.

M.9.741-2
Huc licet ex toto sollertia confluat orbe,
ipse licet revolet ceratis Daedalus alis,
quid faciet?
But though all the world’s talent were concentrated here, though Daedalus himself
were to fly back on his waxen wings, what could he do? trans. Innes
Same deal here. Seems OK to me.

M.13.862
ille tamen placeatque sibi placeatque licebit,
quod nollem, Galatea, tibi;
Still, he may feel pleased with himself, and even please you, Galatea, though I
wish he did not… trans. Innes
This one uses the future of licet. I’m wondering if it’s still the same deal.

M.8.601-2
“Adfer opem, mersaeque, precor, feritate paterna
da, Neptune, locum, vel sit locus ipsa licebit!”
Bring help, I pray, and grant a place to the girl immersed by the savageness of her
father, Neptune, or at least it will be granted that she herself may BE a place!"
Here, it’s the future “licebit”. And this is a prayer. With the future of “licet” in the second alternative, it sounds bossy to be essentially saying to a god “give her a place OR at a minimum it will be permitted that she herself may BE a place”.

Are these examples with “licebit” true examples of the concessive use of “licet” or are they actually something else?

Please help.

Best,
Dave S

2

Your first two, as you recognize, are examples of the familiar concessive force of licet with subjunctive. The other two, with licebit, are quite different. They exemplify the more basic use of licet “it’s permitted” (an awkward and inadequate translation in English).

M.13.862 ille tamen placeatque sibi placeatque licebit,
quod nollem, Galatea, tibi
“However, it will be permitted that he be pleasing to himself and (even) that he be pleasing to you, Galatea”
i.e. It will be ok with me, I won’t object.
The monstrous Cyclops Polyphemus is willing to put up with Acis’s self-satisfaction, and however reluctantly (quod nollem) with Galatea liking him.

M.8.601-2 is a little more complicated. but essentially the same.
”Adfer opem, mersaeque, precor, feritate paterna
da, Neptune, locum, vel sit locus ipsa licebit!”
First there’s the prayer proper (adfer opem & da locum: imperatives as usual in prayers). Then vel sit locus ipsa licebit, “or it will be ok that she be a locus herself,” practically “or how about letting her be a locus herself.” It’s this alternative that Neptune grants, thus bringing about the metamorphosis.

3

Thanks for the clarification! I guess I need to study the full range of possible meanings for “licet”. “It will be permitted” sounded like a loaded threat which would obviously be inappropriate for even a river god to make to Neptune. But I see now he’s just putting it out there as one of the workable possibilities that he can imagine.

And I would guess that I will not find the future tense of “licet” employed as a conjunction like the other examples of that usage given above…

4

Licet is not a conjunction.

  1. The particles of concession (meaning although, granting that) are quamvīs, ut, licet, etsī, tametsī, etiam sī, quamquam, and cum.

b. Licet (although) takes the present or perfect subjunctive.

licet omnēs mihi terrōrēs perīculaque impendeant (Rosc. Am. 31)
though all terrors and perils should menace me

Note— Licet is properly a verb in the present tense, meaning it is granted. Hence the subjunctive is by the sequence of tenses limited to the present and perfect. The concessive clause with licet is hortatory in origin, but may be regarded as a substantive clause serving as the subject of the impersonal verb (§ 565, Note 1).

Meagan Ayer, Allen and Greenough’s New Latin Grammar for Schools and Colleges. Carlisle, Pennsylvania: Dickinson College Commentaries, 2014. ISBN: 978-1-947822-04-7. http://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/concessive-clauses

5

Dave understood the use of licet perfectly well, and his referring to it as a conjunction reflects its pragmatic function (“although”). And it was not licet but the use of licebit that was the main object of enquiry and that I tried to elucidate. Quoting A&G does not help with this.