Latin poetry pronunciation, stress, etc...

Latin Learning Latin
1

Salvete omnibus!

Recently, I’ve been trying to record some simple Latin poetry on my PC to put on my iPod. Of course, almost immediately, I ran into trouble. My main difficulty (not counting my poor accent) is resolving the stress-accent of the individual words with trochees and dactyls in Catullus.

I know that the poets often purposely mixed up stress accents and icti for effect, but how to resolve that into recitation seems to be a challenge. I had a tough time just trying to read aloud the five poems of Catullus I originally found in LL I:34 (Catullus III, V, XII, LXX, and LXXXV).

Two examples:

In Catullus III, line 16, (o factum male! o miselle passer!), most of the line matches well with stress vs. ictus, but “male” falls at the tail end of a dactyl. I still am not sure how to read (aloud) the first half of the line, as the dactylic rhythm doesn’t seem quite friendly to the sense of the sentence.

Here is the final mp3 of how I read the poem: Catullus III

In Catullus V, line 5 (nobis, cum semel occidit brevis lux,), “brevis” fights against the trochee in such a way that I have no idea how to read it. Do you read (aloud) the word-according-to-meter, as “bre-VIS”, or the word-according-to-stress, as “BRE-vis.” Is there something in between I’m missing?

Again, here’s an mp3 of the whole poem: Catullus V

Anyway, any help anyone can offer would be wonderful. Let me apologize in advance for my poor accent (I was raised in the Midwest and still live here) and even worse performance (I am not an actor :smiley: ).

Gratias omnibus ago, nunc et sempiternam!

Chris

2

Your accent is rather lovely. Your pronunciation shows great potential.

Okay, first thing: ictus has been misunderstood for millenia, and you would do best to ignore anything you learned about it, because it’s irrelevant.

So, ictus striken — next step:

Let’s deconstruct everything you think you know about Latin stress, accent, and metre, because competing incorrect assumptions are causing the conflict you are now experiencing.

The MOST important aspect of Latin and Greek poetry is syllable length. Do you sing or play a musical instrument? Short syllables are like quarter notes, and long syllables are like half notes. Practice by reading lines of verse in monotone, paying attention only to syllable length (quantity).

By doing this in monotone, you will clearly hear the rhythm of syllables long and short.

Your recordings demonstrate some mastery of this concept. The next step is to apply the word stresses — remember, ictus, as far as we are concerned, does net exsist — and we do this at first by raising the pitch of every stressed syllable. The natural word stresses are used.

Make sure you are not artificially lengthening stressed, short syllables, as we would do in English or Italian. This is very important.

As you grow comfortable doing this, you can allow the pitch accents you formed to decay into stresses — principally, they are merely increases in amplitude. Often, they’re not audible at all in a line. Syllable length and natural cadence are ESSENTIAL in Latin poetry. Completely artificial and completely wrong concepts such as the so-called “ictus” must be eliminated completely.

The Viva Voce recordings do all these things perfectly.

3

Thanks, Luce, for both the complements and suggestions. Fortunately, I’ve had a bit of music and will give readings a try with a metronome and practice according to your advice.

I looked for the Viva Voce website and it seems to be no more. I found some poetry readings by the man who ran Viva Voce on Metrodorus’ Latinum website and will listen to those. (Thanks, Metrodore, for the link).

Eventually, I hope you’ll hear some more refined recordings from me.

Best,
Chris

4

Sincerely, Chris, you’re Latin pronunciation is beautiful; reinforce the metre, lose the “ictus,” and you’ll be solid.

5

Salvete Luce et alii curantes…

I’ve worked on my reading skills for a couple of weeks now, first reading in monotone with a metronome, speeding up, accents relegated to pitch alone, and I think I’m doing much better. So, I’ve re-recorded and I hope you’ll find I’m more conscious of “speaking” the meter:

Catullus III

Catullus V

Catullus XIII

I spent a great deal of time listening to the Viva Voce recordings and to some others on Latinum…I was taken by the recording of Catullus XXIX which is one of the coolest sounding poems of all (of course, the language being akin to dialogue in an episode of HBO’s Deadwood made it all the more fun). Reading it aloud and not sounding like a robot is tough, however, and I’m wondering just how far one can go modifying tempo, emphasizing caesura and diaresis, and changing pitch. Any ideas? Practical advice?

Once again, many thanks, Luce, for your advice…it’s made a world of difference already…even if I’m still off the mark.

Best,
Chris

6

You’ve hit the mark – I listened to the first one – excellent. Now just speed it up to normal velocity. Variations in tempo, for excitation, dramatic effect, et cetera, are to be encouraged.

Macte fecisti.

7

Hoc maneo ut tibi ualetudines agem. Lecta carmina audi it mihi multum ea placent. Quamquam opinio critica mea scilicet dare nescio, uolo ut continue carmina recitanda tibi sint!