Iste vs. ille

Latin Learning Latin
1

Hi everybody,

I’m reviewing Capvt 12 of Wheelock and I found some online flashcards with the translations of the exercises, but I have some (rather nitpicking) doubts about this one:

  1. That friendly queen did not remain there a long time.

is translated as

  1. Ista regīna amīca ibi nōn diū rēmānsit.

Wheelock offers two main explanations for “iste” as opposed to “ille”

  1. iste means “that one there close to you” (of yours), and/or
  2. iste is pejorative/dismissive/off-puttish.

I’ve noticed that these flashcards automatically use “iste” as a translation for “that”, whether pejorative or not. I don’t see why “That friendly queen” should be pejorative (unless it’s some sarcastic diatribe by Cicero where he’s lambasting Anthony: “that “friendly” queen of yours, Cleopatra” .

Isn’t “Illa regina amica” better as a positive formulation?

2

ista seems wrong, not nitpicking at all.

As you say unless it’s ironic it doesnt really make sense. Any system that automatically uses one form rather than another seems suspect.

3

Thanks again, Seneca! I’m starting to question my judgement about “this” and “that” even in English, because I use them about 50:50 (“this” for something new and “that” for something already referred to) but I notice that everybody else these dats is saying “this” about 90% of the time even in expressions like “This said” or “This is how it used to be”, which make me cringe but I guess I’m getting old (don’t want to get too off-topic though)