istaec in Satiricon - II, 7

Salvete, amici !
I have some troubles with Petrone’s Satiricon.
Here’s the sentence :

[Grandis et, ut ita dicam, pudica oratio non est maculosa nec turgida, sed naturali pulchritudine exsurgit.]
Nuper ventosa istaec et enormis loquacitas Athenas ex Asia commigravit.

Istaec is a pl. neuter ? furrows brow
Translation : Recently this huge verbosity full of wind came to Athena from Asia.

But I must be wrong, because in this case, wouldn’t it be ‘ista’ (to match loquacitas) instead of istaec ?

Think of it as iste + hic…i.e., iste declined like hic…“that, by way of.” It’s neuter plural limiting both ventosa and loquacitas.

Nuper ventosa istaec et enormis loquacitas Athenas ex Asia commigravit.

Recently that/your/his/her wind and enormous verbosity migrated by way of Asia to Athens.

Hope this helps! :smiley:
Chris

It’s neuter plural limiting both ventosa and loquacitas.

Aha ! Tibi gratias ago :smiley:

But…it brings another question : about ventosa. Is it a noun (meaning plunger ?! ) or an adj (ventosus, a, um) turned into a noun (thus meaning wind) ?

(Oh, and yes, it’s Athens, not Athena :unamused: hehe)

I messed up too…I meant “windy” instead of “wind.” :blush:

Ventosus, according to my dictionary, is full of wind, or puffed-up. Looking back at the original sentence, it seems to me that you could consider ventosa as either a neuter plural suggesting “winds” or (more probably) a femine adjective modifying loquacitas. Probably “windy and enormous verbosity” or “wind-filled and enormous verbosity.” Considering Petronius and the context, you could probably go so far as to say “flatulent.” :open_mouth:

Depending on how much fun you want to have with the translation, you could go as far as “Recently, this flatulent and enormous verbosity blew in to Athens from Asia.” :smiley: But that’s all in fun and not necessarily the most literal translation.

Hope this helps,
Chris

p.s. I will add the small disclaimer that my Latin is not perfect and there are other people here who are much better versed than I and could perhaps help you with a little more certainty.

I think it’s more likely that istaec is feminine singular. Remember, haec can be either neuter plural or feminine singular, and if iste is following that pattern, either choice would work.

That makes more sense, since ventosa is probably an adjective modifying loquacitas just as enormis does. One noun doesn’t really admit neuter plural. (Unless there’s something really strange going on.)

David

Think of it as iste + hic

Yes ! I should have read more carefully. slaps brow
I was focusing too much on iste.

istaec - f. sing. does make more sense.
Thanks :smiley: