Gang: Hi-I have an opportunity to take a Latin class based on the letters of Pliny, starting next month. I really need something to maintain my proficiency, & naturally I would prefer some author who is 1. interesting & 2. not too hard. Does that sound like a definition of Pliny? I haven’t looked at his stuff in Latin-I used an English version of the letters for a Roman Civ. class. A couple of people more advanced than me really recommended him-I am at the stage where I am tutoring beginning Latin, but have trouble with more advanced authors. I am doing several other things, so I really need an author who will hold my interest. If not Pliny, who might fit the definition? My main interest is archaeology, & I think Pliny touches on that a little. Any suggestions? Thanks- Paige.
I assume you mean Pliny the Younger? I dunno. I didn’t find him all that interesting, if only for his being late. We all have different tastes, though. Personally, I prefer poetry, thus perhaps I could recommend Catullus? Ovid’s always fun too.
Chris-Thanks. I haven’t done much in poetry. Is Catullus readable? I mean do most people have to stop and look up every other word? That ruins it for me. An author who is both readable and interesting is what I have in mind, and let’s be honest, a lot of Latin authors are neither. Paige.
I just finished a graduate coure on Pliny. Some of his letters are interesting, provided that you are interested in the time period. His letters on Vesuvius and the Christians are “classics”. But I wouldn’t say that he is, over all, an “easy” author. Certainly some of his letters are extremely easy, but others are so compressed and wierd that they are extremely difficult. There are some differences in idiom from Classical Latin as well.
i like Caesar, I think he’s interesting.
Yes, Catullus is very readable. Most of his words should be in your vocabulary. Caesar is also easily readable, as is, probably the easiest of all, “Augustus”.
Finally, stay far, far away from Horace.
Gang: Thanks for the suggestions. I started with J. Caesar’s Gallic War & that was about all I wanted of him. I do want to read the “Civil War” later on, for the politics. I am sort of exploring Medieval Latin for my own interest, but I need a “classic” to stay in the loop. I started looking at Catullus a couple of days ago, & think he might be fun-he looks easier to do than I thought. Thanks for the recomendation, Chris. One good thing-I am teaching begin. Latin to High School students, & Catullus should be interesting to them too. How about a good, readable intro to C. & his poetry? Something that presents him as a real person-any thoughts? Thanks again! Paige.
I haven’t read too many intros on Catullus, but The Student’s Catullus wasn’t so bad. I didn’t always agree with the text, or the notes, but overall, they were sound.
However, I caution against “teaching” Catullus without fully going through him, or, for that matter, to let high school student’s do certain poems of Catullus. In fact, I wouldn’t recommend Catullus for anyone who a) doesn’t have a firm grasp of basic grammar already (subjunctive use, different case usage, etc…) b) is unfamiliar with poetic syntax, and c) is unfamiliar with the the broad literary and political movements of Rome during the 1st century BCE.
All these things can be taught, but it would be largely consuming.
Can I ask about your specific teaching post?
Also, for yourself again, have you considered the classic Vergil? Pharr’s version, which I linked, is what we used while I was still in high school many years ago. But I worry that it, like nearly every author, is too advanced for beginners.
However, a good solid text for beginner’s to work on is Augustus’ Res Gestae. It’s very easy, though I doubt an absolute beginner would be able to get through it without difficulty. If you’re going to be teaching beginner’s, stick to stuff like the Oxford Latin course (part I, II, and III, and the teacher’s editions) or Ecce Romani.
Hold on, you can’t bin Horace that simply!
‘Easiness’ is a matter of 1) language and 2) content. The language of ALL classical poets is ‘difficult’ but you can at least take Horace in small doses called odes (some ‘unscrambling’ of his sentences is necessary). Content-wise, Horace is more accessible than most since his sentiments interface seamlessly with post-Roman feeling, despite their mythological fancy dress. That’s why he’s been everyone’s favourite poet through the centuries. Try these odes for size:
1.4 – Vides ut alta … Winter scene and anticipation of spring / hoary age v. youth & love
I.5 – Tu ne quaesieris … Accept your fate, pluck the day
I.9 – Quis multa gracilis … Poet hurting after fling with femme fatale (Check out Milton’s translation)
I.11 – Solvitur acris hiems … Spring reminds poet of life’s brevity
II.14 – Eheu fugaces, Postume … (fleeting time once again)
IV.7 – Diffugere nives … Another spring song (Check out A. E. Housman’s English version)
Btw, the Oxford course mentioned by Chris W. is built up around the life of Horace.
No, Horace is not for beginners, but you might find a phrase or two to quote.
pallida mors aequo pulsat pede pauperum tabernas
regumque turris.
Is that so difficult?
damna tamen celeres reparant caelestia lunae
Isn’t that beautiful (bearing in mind what comes next in the poem)?
Only Catullus can serve up equally accessible gems (for example nos. 5, 8, 101).
Cheers,
Int
Ha! Interaxus, Horace either is loved or hated. I find some of his work “easy”, certainly much beautiful, but oh, I can’t stand that Roman! He has my respect, for sure, but not my favor. What’s worse, he simply ignored my favorite poet, Catullus, when describing himself as the first lyric poet! How rude! That Augustan bastard never had it so easy; were it not for the pioneering of Catullus, a man who ridiculed Caesar and still was invited to his dinner party, Horace would not have half the material he did.
But as far as workability, there are indeed several poems Horace wrote that are relatively easy; but Catullus is easier yet. More natural, in my opinion.~
Gang-Thank you again for the excellent responses! I thought I might try some of C.'s small (& unobscene) poems & see if i thought the students could do them. We’ll see. To “Inter”-I agree about Horace-I can slowly make out what he is saying & it’s beautiful-especially love his orientation toward nature-but a lot of his stuff is HARD! I am just teaching intro. Latin part-time (High School level) & working on teaching certification. Also want to teach Greek but there isn’t much demand. Chris-I have been translating Aug.'s “Res Gestae” for myself & really it is interesting. I want to go see the Ara Pacis as soon as possible. That is a good idea-I am “orienting” the kids to archaeology-that was my major-so that might be a good text, with photos etc. Thanks for the in-put guys-that’s what i love about Textkit -i’ve never failed to get some really great ideas! Thank you! Paige.
Chris, one could easily add requirements to your list. Knowledge of Callimachus and “Alexandrian” poetry in general must rank high on such a list, and to understand them one must have a good understanding of Homer and really the whole arc of ancient Greek literature. Familiarity with Ennius may be useful. Knowledge of those who came after Catullus may help us understand how Catullus himself was understood in his own time. Before you know it, you’ve required someone who wants to read Catullus to know everything about every facet of human knowledge.
I submit that one has to start somewhere. vivamus atque amemus and odi et amo and so many other poems are works of literature that can be appreciated in their own right. atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale is unforgettable and stirring. We all have our favorites.
Even some of the more learned poems, like 51, can easily be appreciated as stand-alone works of literature – yes, knowledge of Sappho may allow one to appreciate the poem more deeply, but it is its own poem. Some of the poems in the 60s may be more abstruse, but … one must start somewhere. non omnia possumus omnes.
Chris,
What you say is true of course. But perhaps we should distinguish between the artist and his art.
Anyway, Catullus like Cicero was Republic while Horace, Virgil, Pliny & Co. were Empire. I think Seneca the Younger says somewhere that most parents don’t survive long enough to receive due praise from their offspring.
Cheers,
Int
Didymus - I was referring to a general survey of Catullus, and his immediate understanding. Certainly, familiarity with epic poetry, Alexandrian poetry, and the Tenth Muse will augment the appreciation and understanding of Catullus.
Not that I disagree with you. Some of his poetry can indeed be understood on its own. But I wouldn’t dare teach a whole class on that alone.