Hello all.
Nomenclature. We keep referring to indirect statements with accusative and infinitive. But what do we call it in the first person ie; “Scīmus tē foedē scrībere” ? I mean, “we know…” is not indirect.
Paul.
If you mean what happens when someone reports their own words rather than someone else’s look on page 132 of the Companion.
"The Reflexive in Indirect Speech
Much of the time, changing direct speech to indirect speech is pretty straightforward. When someone reports his or her own words in the accusative and infinitive construction (indirect speech), the subject accusative is the reflexive sē. This is best learned by studying several examples. We have already read an example in Cap. XIV:
Dāvus…eum sēcum venīre iubet: “Venī mēcum!”: Davus orders him (Marcus) to come with him (Davus): “Come with me!” (Cap. XIV, l.87)
Quīntus: “(Ego) aeger sum” is reported by Marcus: Quīntus dīcit “sē aegrum esse.” Quintus says that he is sick. (l.82)
Mārcus: “Ego eius librum habeō” becomes Mārcus dīcit “sē eius librum habēre.”
Mārcus: “Ego,” inquit, “nōn dormiō” becomes Mārcus dīcit “sē nōn dormīre.”
Sextus et Titus: “Neque nōs dormīmus,” inquiunt. “Vigilāmus et omnia verba tua audīmus” becomes Sextus et Titus dīcunt “sē nōn dormīre; sē vigilāre et omnia verba eius audīre.” "
If you mean something else then you will have to expand a bit on what you wrote.
As ever if this isn’t clear please ask again.
“Scīmus tē foedē scrībere” - is it not an accusative/infinitive construction?
Not reporting anything, just saying that we know something.
I’m not sure I’m going to get to the end of this book.
Paul.
Not reporting anything, just saying that we know something.
Accusative and infinitive construction is used not only after verbs reporting something but also saying, thinking and perceiving. In a sense “we know” is a strengthened version of “we say”, asserting that “we say this because it is true or we know it to be true.”
What I couldn’t quite understand is your reference to the first person. It doesnt much matter which person is used in the verb that introduces the accusative and infinitive.
Sorry I cant be more helpful. You are welcome to try again or wait til someone more expert weighs in.
Having got so far I am sure you will finish the book and also read selections from Roma Aeterna too. Give yourself a break!
Maybe you can see it this way.
Direct speech is this:
foedē scrībīs,
It can be said by anybody (āiō, inquis, inquit, etc.)
Indirect/reported speech is this:
Sciō/scīs/scit/scīmus/scītis/sciunt tē foedē scrībere
Anybody can report it.
Thanks.
The reason for this thread was because I wanted to know if that particular usage had a “name”. All I hear is “indirect statement” used as a catch-all.
Ah well, never mind. I’ll just call it a wibble.
Paul.
There’s indirect “statement,” indirect question, and indirect command. These are three different types of indirect discourse.
Seneca and bedwere have explained what’s meant by “indirect statement.” The subject may be first, second, or third person, singular or plural, but it is not a catch-all. You can call it a wibble if you want to be silly and confuse yourself, but the accepted term is “indirect statement.”
There’s also (of course) the direct forms of these three things:
(1) direct statement, e.g. Foede scribis.
(2) direct question (e.g. Why do you write so disgustingly?), and
(3) direct command (e.g. Stop!).
Indirect statement (to go back to that) uses the infinitive, as by now you have surely learnt, and the subject of the infinitive is in the accusative.
E.g. I say/think/know/etc.etc. that you write disgustingly, Dico/Opinor/Scio/etc.etc. te foede scribere.
No need for your head to explode.
It is also referred to as oratio obliqua, but I have mostly encountered that term in writings that are more analytical of authorial style.
Oratio obliqua is any type of indirect discourse, see my post above.