In Defence of the Commentary

On a current thread in the Greek board the subject of commentaries has come up. Once again, someone has expressed an unwillingness to use commentaries, and the reason given is quite common:

It’s going to seem like I’m picking on Pete here, but I’ve heard people express this sentiment several times, even for English literature. I think the reasoning is unsound. I’ve stared into space over a pot of jasmine tea thinking about it, and here is why I think everyone should use a commentary. I’ll talk in terms of Greek literature, but it all applies to Latin, too.

A commentary isn’t a tyrant. That is, the subtext of “draw my own conclusions” is “I don’t want anyone telling me how to think.” I hear some people express their disdain for commentaries with exactly that later wording. But why should reading a commentary imply that we shut down our critical faculties while we read it? I disagree with commentaries regularly. Especially in scholarly commentaries which may go over several competing views, I have no qualms in dismissing the commentators’ reading in favor of one they dismissed if I think the reasoning is unconvincing.

Neither do we come to these texts untainted by other people telling us what to think. The more popular a text (like Homer), the more likely we are to have encountered it before, either in translation or in modern interpretations. Every film about Greek mythology we’ve seen leaves us with ideas that will influence our interpretation of a text. A commentary can correct ahistorical interpretations, though of course it may also introduce its own.

No reference is passive. If you believe a commentary is telling you what to believe, let me assure you that so too are every other reference you use. Especially on less common words, a dictionary is just as likely to mislead you as a commentary.

Further, the very texts we use are making decisions for us about how we draw our conclusions. Whether I open a OCT, a Teubner, a Loeb or a student edition of a text, the editor has made decisions about how to interpret the text by selecting from the manuscript evidence and the work of previous scholars. Even with punctuation and capitalization the editor decides for us. The variations available are visible in the app crit of a good text, but without a commentary it you may have no idea how an editor makes a choice, or even where genuine disagreement exists.

I am not an ancient Greek aristocrat. I have not grown up saturated in Greek religion, culture and literature. I am, frankly, ignorant of quite a lot. Very often in my reading I find a completely innocuous phrase that turns out to be pregnant with historical or literary meaning. Without the commentary, I might blow right by, and miss the deeper meaning entirely. True, the more I read Homer, the more likely I am to notice Homeric echos in other authors, but the commentary helps me where my own reading has failed, or where the referenced author has not yet made it onto my reading list.

Scholarship hasn’t stopped. Many of the reference tools we use are quite old, as often are the editions of the texts themselves. No dictionary or critical edition is perfect. A recently published papyrus scrap may clarify an ambiguity, as we have recently discovered with Sappho 58. Modern lexicographical work may give us a sounder understanding of a word. A reasonably current commentary also serves as a summary of scholarship that has gone on since the publication of whatever text you are reading, and gives us a better chance of drawing sound conclusions on our own.

I should add that I don’t mean to imply that all textkittens should run out and acquire the Kirk et al. massive Iliad commentary. Professional classicsts should have that, certainly, and loony amateurs like me. But there’s no reason for textkitens studying Gk to avoid, say, Stanford’s Odyssey commentary (or the equivalent).

I agree with you concerning the necessity of commentaries . What about ancient commentators . I often see references to Servius and Scholiasts . Does anyone use these ? I have never even seen a copy . Or are all the useful references from ancient commentaries incorporated into later works ?

I certainly agree wholeheartedly about the value of commentaries, not so much as stores of fact but collections of possibilities that all critics must consider.
As to the ancient commentators they have immense value not only in the textual benefit they provide for overriding corrupt lections in the main trad., but also for the perspective in which they view and discuss the text, i.e. what points they regard as salient, what things trouble them (but don’t perhaps trouble the modern critic). Servius, Donatus and Macrobius are obviously all of immense benefit, but there are many anonymous scholia that shed light on innumerable puzzles. I have often consulted Dindorf’s collection of Homeric scholia and am often drawn to the Koster-Holwerda Aristophanic scholia.

~D

Certainly Aristophanes is an excellent example , how could anyone understand the topical references without help . Coincidentally I have just this week bought a copy of Macrobius . I got it for the Saturnalia
& didn’t think of it as a ‘commentary’ as such but of course it is also has his comments on the Aeneid and Cicero’s Somnium Scipionis.

Yikes! It looks like I stuck a chord in William and it was a D Minor.

I suppose I should have left in my original wording which amounted to “I don’t like commentaries much, but I suppose they are very useful for historical context and in that light might be very interesting.”

I just didn’t write it cause I had to go and was getting yanked off the computer by my wife, Steph. :slight_smile:

Rereading this thread, maybe this is a good topic for the FAQ? “Why are commentaries valuable and why should I read them?”

I think Will is referring partly to my criticism of commentaries on a 2004 thread. For me the point is to read Greek. If commentaries help you get through more pages of Greek good, but that’s not always the way it works, at least from what I’ve heard, lots of people seem to have read 1000s of pgs of one but not the other… I wouldn’t say “stop reading commentaries” though because we’re all just doing this out of interest, any reading is worth doing :slight_smile:

I figure when I know enough greek (Epic/Attic/Koine) to fluently speak, read, and write it, I’ll get something transcendant and useful out of commentaries… Until then, I’m much more interested in understanding the text itself.

Maybe I was just burned ever since I read the Sun Tzu commentaries. 5 people simply restating the original words in a conceited manner really left a bad taste in my mouth.

hi Pete, you’ll get something useful out of the commentaries well before then don’t worry :slight_smile: Iliad 1 is a good e.g. Just for reading it, Draper will get you through the pages the 1st time. Then a read of Pulleyn cover to cover will fill in lots of the details which enrich your understanding. The point is to get through Book 1 though: think over the last few thousand years how many people have read the proem to the Iliad, and read many commentaries and understand the outline of the grammar, but haven’t read further in the actual Iliad, that’s what I was getting at. The satisfaction of reading something in Greek comfortably and getting to the last page of a Greek book is more important to me than picking up the historical nuances the 1st time through a book, but it’s just personal preference, both are good :slight_smile:

From experience writing about various aspects of Latin literature I must say that it would be very time-wasting trying to write anything without a commentary. You don’t have to agree with them, I often don’t, but having to look up every reference to a person’s name mentioned in the text, or a custom or some vague deity would add hours to my already overloaded schedule! Why reinvent the wheel when someone has already done this research? Also, any good commentary will give other references to source material, also a time saver if you do want to do further in-depth research.

What about ancient commentators . I often see references to Servius and Scholiasts . Does anyone use these ? I have never even seen a copy . Or are all the useful references from ancient commentaries incorporated into later works ?

Yes, I have searched the internet for some of these, I don’t even know if there is a translation of Servius. Does anyone have any information about these old commentaries?

Don’t wait that long.
Unless you have a community where you can be immersed in the language, that kind of fluence will be a long time coming.
If you are anything like me you can get something usefull out of a commentary. I find it allerts me to simple things like an error in my reading.
Even if my reading is correct I may not understand the point of what I’ve read. One recent example is in Iliad 3: 78 where Hector grabs the spear in the middle and got the other Trojans to sit.
I did not think much of it but I thought that this grabbing the spear in the middle was a bit irrelevant to the rest of the story.
The notes explained this as meaning that now the whole length of the spear, held broadside, can be used to control the Trojans. Now it makes sense and therefore; More enjoyment out of the story.

Not at all. I had forgotten you had made such a criticism. Naughty chad!

:slight_smile:

Recently the most poo-pooing of commentaries has actually come to me from people who think I shouldn’t read John Donne with a commentary.

For me the point is to read Greek.

Absolutely. This is the other reason I could never go to grad school in classics: I’m not willing to spend the majority of my time on the secondary literature.

Well, the point I’m trying to make is that because of the nature of the texts we’re dealing with understanding the text requires more than just the text itself. I have no TV, and while I like the Simpsons fine, I’ve not seen all the episodes. When Ned, Young Will and Wonko (note: psilord will know who these guys are) suddenly start speaking Simpsons, I often have no idea what they’re saying. Their words are not sufficient to understand the point they’re making. Similarly I cannot approach Greek without some guidance. I don’t have the background since I’m not an ancient Greek.

I was once hunting down a tricky bit of Iliad.1 for, I think pharr-a. I consulted Kirk, I consulted Willcock. I eventually even looked at Scholia D. I forget what I was looking at, but it was near Il.1.403-404, where the Hundred-Hander, “whom gods call Birareus and all men Aigaion,” is mentioned. Every single commentary, from Scholia D down to Kirk, takes time at these lines to mention the other places in Homer where the gods have one word for something and men call it something else.

Such conservatism is extraordinary. It seems like the best of the ancient commentaries probably makes it into modern ones.

However, I’ve never hunted down other ancient commentaries. If Scholia D is at all typical an awful lot of paper is spent identifying Epic forms. Apart from providing additional textual evidence, it’s not clear to me how much is left to be mined from them. But academic publishers keep printing them, so perhaps there’s silver in Laurium yet.

It seems Chad has read my mind and said what it was I was trying to say…

I also share the sentiment that the text is the thing, but I do like having a light commentary like Wilcock to give me a lift when I’m having trouble - especially when he spares me the trouble of searching for some obscure word or form in Cunliffe. I am not at the stage, however, where I want to have a commentary which is more massive than the text itself.

I agree that dictionaries can be as misleading at a commentary. Wonderful as Cunliffe is, I can feel it has a personal style which one would not find in a lexicon written by a commitee of 50 scholars. Cunliffe’s distinctive phrasing of defitions has sparked a laugh in me more than once.

Good post Will!
I agree with you. I know from experience what can happen if you don’t use the commentary. I could not be bothered to try and decipher the one my Greek teacher provided us for certain parts of the Odyssey. In some cases this lead to me doing more work than my friends, as I figured out some difficult bits that were just given in the commentary and so they just hadn’t thought about it themselves, but just taken the commentator’s translation. Just as many times though as they simply read the commentary and so were ‘less inclined’ to think about a certain passage themselves, I translated something wrong or didn’t understand the meaning because I was just missing out on some information that I couldn’t find in the dictionary for the attic grammar we used. I especially like the footnotes that explain a bit of historical background, they are always very interesting, as some passages don’t make all too much sense without such information, or just mean so much more when you have it.
There is the ‘problem’ of being lazy and not thinking through things yourself if you have an extensive commentary maybe, but if you know you are such a person, it might be best to just try for yourself first and then afterwards check your translation with the commentary.

Any book written more than a hundred years ago gains a lot with a good commentary, I say. Since no one is forced to read it, everyone’s a winner, I add.

I wonder what kind of commentaries will be written on books being published now a hundred years from.

It’s similar to how I wonder what the future amendments to the American Constitution shall be (and what deductions we could make from them concerning our nation’s destiny).