Its been awhile since the last time I posted something here
trying to read Thrasymachus by Peckett & Munday, and the stories should be fairly easy enough
still, I stumble upon some problem here and there
such as these two sentences
chapter XIII
ἐβουλόμην γάρ ποτε μαθεῖν εἰ οἰ θεοὶ τῷ ὄντι σοφώτεροί εἰσι τῶν ἀνθρὠπων. line 49
chapter XV
εἰ δὲ τρία μῆλα τῷ ὄντι κτᾶσθαι ἐθέλεις , οὐχ ὑπ’ ἐμοῦ γε κωλυθήσῃ. line 35
what is the dative participle of εἰμί doing in those places? how should we read the sentences?
seems that I miss something that should be obvious…
thank you
It"s an idiomatic expression. “In fact, indeed”. It occurs often(?) in Plato.
LSJ:
be the fact or the case, διπλασίαν ἂν τὴν δύναμιν εἰκάζεσθαι ἤ ἐστιν twice as large as it really is, Th. 1.10; αὐτὸ ὅ ἐστι καλόν beauty in its essence, Pl. Smp. 211c, cf. Phd. 74b; freq. in part., τὸν ἐόντα λόγον λέγειν or φαίνειν the true story, Hdt. 1.95,116; τῷ ἐόντι χρήσασθαι tell the truth, ib. 30; τὰ ὄντα ἀπαγγέλλειν Th. 7.8; σκῆψιν οὐκ οὖσαν, λόγον οὐκ ὄντα, S. El. 584, Ar. Ra. 1052; τῷ ὄντι in reality, in fact, Pl. Prt. 328d, etc.; to apply a quotation to a case in point, τῷ ὄντι κλαυσίγελως real ‘smiles through tears’ (with allusion to Il. 6.484), X. HG 7.2.9, cf. Pl. La. 196d; κατὰ τὸ ἐόν according to the fact, rightly, Hdt. 1.97; πᾶν τὸ ἐόν the whole truth, Id. 9.11; τοῦ ἐόντος ἀποτεύξεται Hp. VM 2.
It is frequent in Plato, and across a number of Attic prose authors. It usually seems to be contrastive though, if that’s the right word, so I’m not sure “indeed” gives right the right impression. No doubt there are exceptions.
Thuc: καὶ γὰρ ὅσα μὲν τῷ ὄντι ἀσθενῆ ὄντα τῶν πολεμίων δόκησιν ἔχει ἰσχύος
(actually weak)
Anabasis: πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ ἐπίστασθε ὅτι οἱ μέλλοντες ἡμῖν ἡγεῖσθαι τῷ ὄντι πολέμιοί εἰσιν
(they are actually enemies)
Euthyphro: Καὶ πόλεμον ἆρα ἡγῇ σὺ εἶναι τῷ ὄντι ἐν τοῖς θεοῖς πρὸς ἀλλήλους … ;
(really the case?)
P. Apology: τῷ ὄντι γὰρ κινδυνεύω ταύτην εἶναι σοφός
(for in this I really do happen to be σοφός)
Stronger, I think, than “indeed” better “in reality” (lexical definition), “in truth,” or “really” close to what we mean in English particularly when we are stressing “really” as in "Do you really want to do this?
Indeed I dont make any distinction in my normal speech between “indeed” and in “in fact”. In fact I regard them as synonyms. Indeed I do.
Ah! now I get it! such a platonic idioms we have there. means that I have to thumb though lsj more often then…
thx you for the helps 
That it is the simple affirmative usage, where “in fact” and “indeed” are synonyms. However, I think that τῷ ὄντι is generally (always?) the contrastive usage, where they are not, as in the Greek examples I quoted.
An English example of the difference between affirmative and contrastive:
“He had promised his wife that he would come directly home after work. In fact, bare minutes after his shift was over, he already had his oldest flame wrapped in a sensuous embrace.”
That is, it’s the difference between marital bliss (in fact = indeed) and adultery (in fact = but actually).