μῶν Πιτθέως τι γῆρας εἴργασται νέον;
πρόσω μὲν ἤδη βίοτος, ἀλλ᾽ ὅμως ἔτ᾽ ἂν 795
λυπηρὸς ἡμῖν τούσδ᾽ ἂν ἐκλίποι δόμους.
Surely not something new has worked itself on aged Pittheus
His life is already onwards, but nevertheless still his depature (passing away)
from this house would be painful to us.
Why the two modals
If he would pass away from this house then it would be painful to us.
But this would require only one modal in the apodosis
Help please.
I don’t think it’s a question of emphasis. αν is such a light and unobtrusive little word (it can’t stand first), while at the same time a semantically critical one, that it’s naturally liable to recur in different parts of the sentence. Here the first αν comes early (after ετι which is effectively first word), while the second comes next to the verb. Both are typical positions for αν.
There’s no actual protasis. The construction is like e.g. ἑκων αν λεγοιμι.
The cynical view:
E. stuck the second αν in a metrical slot where he needed a short syllable that would block hiatus with ἐκλίποι.
I’m joking, of course. Poets such as Euripides could write perfectly formed trimeters almost without thinking about meter.
I didn’t mention meter because it’s clearly not a significant factor. It’s notable he didn’t write ετι instead of ετ’ αν. It’s good to have an αν at the outset, and with the verb it goes naturally.
Some of the instances in bedwere’s quote (from Smyth?) are interesting.
Actually, Liddell & Scott.
Apologies for resuscitating this old thread… Currently stuck at this passage and trying to make sense of your comparison of the line to ἑκων αν λεγοιμι.
So is ἀλλ᾽ ὅμως ἔτ᾽ ἂν λυπηρὸς ἡμῖν τούσδ᾽ ἂν ἐκλίποι δόμους NOT a conditional statement? I guess it cannot be since there is no protasis. But I can’t seem to construe this without using some sort of a conditional structure in the English. So are we dealing with a potential optative? “Should he leave this house, this would nonetheless still be painful to me.” If so, it seems to me that there is a conditional sense even if not syntactically a conditional…
Many thanks in advance!
Yes, it’s a potential optative, as in “Would you like a cup of tea?” or ἑκων αν λεγοιμι. There’s no actual condition—unlike your “"Should he leave this house, …”, which is a condition (“Should he leave” = “If he should leave”; that’s just English).
I expect it’s λυπηρὸς ἡμῖν that’s the source of the difficulty. In English we might say “Nonetheless, it would still distress us if he were to leave,” but that’s not the way the Greek works. It’s more like “Nonetheless, still distressing us would he leave”—λυπηρὸς masc., predicative.
To be sure, there’s an implied condition. "Nonetheless, [if he were to leave] he would still leave λυπηρος ημιν”, but that doesn’t need to be expressed. Would you like another cup of tea [if I should offer you one]?
Hope that helps. Trust you’re enjoying the Hippolytus!
Yes, helpful indeed!
Just to clarify: λυπηρὸς is modifying the subject of eklipoi (Pittheus), not the idea of his departing/dying (as your translation above seems to suggest: “it would still distress us…”)
Thanks again!
As I said, it’s the difference between English and Greek. I’m not sure you quite understood.