The Perseus Greek Word Parsing Tool says ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα are acc. neut. pl. comparative adjectives. But it seems to me that they’re used here as adverbs modifying ἐποίησα e.g. “I acted more quickly than wisely.” And σοφώτερος is the comparative of σοφῶς.
So let’s say they’re adverbs. But then CGCG sec. 6.13 says “The comparative and superlative degrees of adverbs are identical to the neuter accusative of the corresponding comparative and superlative adjectives. The acc. neut. singular of the compartive adjuective is used for the comparative adverb…”
But ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα are acc. neut. plural not singular. Is this an Ionic thing?
ποιέω.B.3 gives examples of its use with only an adverb. Here I would have thought that the adverb meaning more straightforward.
δείσας δὲ μὴ ἀπαιρεθέω τὴν ἀρχὴν πρὸς τοῦ ἀδελφεοῦ, ἐποίησα ταχύτερα ἢ σοφώτερα
And afeared yet lest my kingdom be made away with from me over to mine sib, I acted the more speedily than the more wisely.
Or: And being afraid that I would be deprived of my rulership by my brother, I acted with greater alacrity than wisdom.
That’s fudge, Joel, and I think you know ir. ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα are not adverbs but adjectives, just as ἀληθέστερα is. Greek sometimes uses adjectives where English might use adverbs. That’s a quite different matter.
I know you can argue honestly when you choose.
I’m still puzzled by this. Concerning σοφώτερα LSJ via Logeion has under III Adv.:
σοφῶς cleverly, wisely, etc., first (?) in S. (?)Fr. 1122; then in E. Alc. 699, Ba. 1271 codd., Heracl. 558, Ar. Ra. 1434, etc.: > Comp. -ώτερον > E. Hec. 1007: Sup. -ώτατα Id. Hel. 1528, Ar. Nu. 522:—σοφῶς, as an exclamation of applause, Plu. Aud. 2.45f, Mart. 3.46.8, etc. (Not in Ep., exc. in Margites l.c. and as ancient v.l. (Eust. 1023.14) in Il. 23.712; but v. σοφία, σοφίζομαι.)
so it seems that σοφώτερον is the comparative adverb form. And concerning ταχύτερα LSJ says under C Degrees of Comparison, I Comp:
the form ταχύτερος, α, ον, is used by Hdt., ἐποίησα ταχύτερα ἢ σοφώτερα 3.65, cf. 7.194; also in Arist. Mu. 394b3, Arr. Ind. 9.6, Aret. SD 1.16, > but not in good Att> .; ταχύτερον as Adv., Hdt. 4.127, 9.101, Hp. Prog. 17.
and nder B Adv.
the Adj. ταχύς is freq. construed with Verbs, where we should use the Adv.> , ταχέες δʼ ἱππῆες ἄγερθεν Il. 23.287; ταχεῖά γʼ ἦλθε χρησμῶν πρᾶξις A. Pers. 739; ὁρμάσθω ταχύς S. Ph. 526; δεῦρʼ ἀφίξεται τ. Id. OC 307; τ. χάρις διαρρεῖ Id. Aj. 1266, cf. Th. 2.75, 5.66.
So I’m wondering if Herodotus uses any of ταχύτερος, α, ον and σοφώτερος, α, ον as either an adjective or an adverb depending on the context i.e. “I acted with more haste than wisdom” (adjectives as direct objects, which is how Persuus Digital Library translates it) vs. “I acted more quickly than wisely” (adverbs, which is how CGCG translates it in example 18 of section 32.12).
Which is why I was wonderning whether in Ionic adjectives are occasionally used adverbially.
(Hope I’m making sense, much of this stuff is still over my head as I plow doggedly through CGCG)
If it’s a question about adverbial forms, then I am not aware of adverbs of comparison being formed with the -τερα ending.
If it’s a question of whether there is adverbial meaning here (hence my being careful to say “adverb meaning” in my original post), then obviously the mental conception is adverbial.
The Perseus “with more haste” is only stylistically different from “more hastily”. “With haste” is an adverbial phrase. Translating as objects would be more like: “I did [acts] more rapid than wise.” Maybe that is the underlying conception of the phrase, but “ἐποίησα καλά” for “I did good [acts]” would be a bit odd, imo.
A similar phrase shows up later in Herodotus (both ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα are otherwise rare in classical Greek):
εὑρὼν δὲ τοῦτο ὁ Δαρεῖος καὶ γνοὺς ὡς ταχύτερα αὐτὸς ἢ σοφώτερα ἐργασμένος εἴη, ἔλυσε. That perfect ἐργασμένος is a lot easier for me to read as a verb taking objects - “a worker of [acts] more rapid than wise”, and is a good argument for Michael’s side here.
When I search, I only see that form in Stobaeus’ Anthology, excerpting Σημεῖα σελήνης (signs of the moon) ἐκ τῶν Ἀράτου Φαινομένων (from Aratus’ Phenomenology). If I’m understanding it right, it seems to be a hexameter poem about predicting the weather from the moon. Here’s the bit you mention.
But when a reddening orb winds entirely about the moon in all directions making her third circuit, it may then be very stormy. And it may be purpled more blazingly by a greater storm.
That’s me translating it as an adverb. But I suppose you could also imagine πυρώτερα as referring to the parts being made purple, so: “and it may be purpled the more fire-like [in places] by a greater storm”.
Thanks Joel, wish I could translate so easily, maybe with time…
And thanks Michael, I see now that ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα are indeed adjectives (though they appear to function adverbally in this phrase).
Guys, I appreciate your forebearance. The reason I’m posting these (dumb?) questions in this subforum is that I’m slowing going through CGCG again but this time I’m trying to translate all the sample quotations from ancient Greek authors. Many of them I can work out, but sometimes I come up against a rock and need some help, and if I get stuck I’ll ask for help here – thanks in advance
Glad to be of help Mitch. And I’m sorry to harp on this but ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα only appear to function adverbially in this phrase if you think of ἐποίησα as meaning “I acted,” which is a bit misleading. ἐποίησα, unlike Eng. “acted”, is usually a transitive verb, i.e. one that takes a direct object: “I did [something]” or ”I made [something or someone]" is much closer to what it generally means. So it’s better—more in keeping with actual usage—to think of ταχύτερα and σοφώτερα here as direct objects (neuter plural adjectives), and functioning as such. That was the point of my original post, before the waters got muddied and the thread wandered so far off track.
Your procedure with CGCG seems good. (But I’d forget about πυρώτερα!)
