Some Greek and latin questions for classicists. Five years ago MWH answered a question of mine with a very helpful one sentence description of βιάζομαι.
“βιάζομαι (middle) means only one thing, to use βία, force.” I take this to mean that force in βιάζομαι can be any form or degree of force and that the context determines what force is being used.
My first question is about the Latin word that was used to translate Biazomai in one particular sentence spoken by Jesus in Matthew’s gospel Chapter 11, verse 12:
a diebus autem Iohannis Baptistae usque nunc regnum caelorum vim patitur et violenti rapiunt illud
Is the Latin lexeme behind ‘vim’ and ‘violenti’ similarly neutral and dependent upon context as βιάζομαι/ βιασταὶ are?
An additional question about word βιασταὶ/violenti. Smyth says “In general the Archaic adjectival use of Bia signified something done with strength. βια means mighty as an adjective.” Is the Latin term violenti similar, pointing to the idea of mighty?
Hello again Phil. You quote me out of context. And if you look back over our earlier correspondence you’ll see that one of the things I said was “At Mt.11:12 the verb is clearly passive.” The snippet you now quote from me expressly pertained to the middle, not the passive.
I can’t imagine how you mean to make use of the Latin translation, but vim patitur renders the passive, as expected.
Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that the passage cited is clearly a passive use. The main thing I am trying to find out relates to a controversy over whether both the βιἀζομαι lexeme and/or the Latin lexeme are used to describe all kinds of force (positive, negative, light or heavy) without any particular type of force being indicated except by context. (This question relates to an issue that arose almost a century ago in which a “theological dictionary” (TDNT)claimεd that βιἀζομαι inherently describes negative, coercive, ‘hostile’ force and “is not used for laudable striving” This conclusion was supposedly from a survey of classical Greek literature. My own research finds that βιάζομαι describes all kinds of force from evil and horrific, to neutral, to heroic activity or pursuing virtue. It does not inherently communicate a pejorative idea.
So my main question is: As a classicist, how do you (or any other responder) understand this lexeme based on your overall knowledge of Greek literature?
Question 2: Does the Latin lexeme used to translate the NT passage, have a similarly wide range of possible usages? (I’m not asking what it means in the particular passage cited, but in general.) I have no knowledge of Latin.
I strongly doubt you will find anything new and worthwhile to say about these lexemes, or about Mt.11:12. To be frank, I think you are wasting your time. To my mind the non-canonical gospels have more to offer. At least they haven’t been bled dry.