Gorgias 449c

Greek Learning Greek
1

πειράσομαί γε ὡς διὰ βραχυτάτων. καὶ γὰρ αὖ καὶ τοῦτο ἕν ἐστιν ὧν φημι, μηδένα ἂν ἐν βραχυτέροις ἐμοῦ τὰ αὐτὰ εἰπεῖν.

Gorgias promises Socrates to keep it short. I’m trying to unpack the ‘little words’ here:

“For indeed (καὶ γὰρ) furthermore (αὖ) this too (καὶ) is one of the things I claim, that no one could say the same things in shorter terms than me. “

So
-καὶ γὰρ: introduces an additional argument
-αὖ: not sure what it adds here. According to the Cambridge Grammar it may indicate a shift to a different but related topic, but that’s not really the case here I think.
-second καὶ adverbial with τοῦτο ἕν.

Is that a correct reading?

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Hi Bart. Yes I think that’s just about it.
και γαρ is little more than an intensified γαρ I think, though the και does add confidence to his πειρασομαι γε, as the faux-modesty of that is cast aside.
As for the αυ, he’s been making claims of himself, and here “again” (or “in turn”) is another one (this one too—“one” suggesting it’s just one of an untold number of his accomplishments).
What a jerk! But Plato goes on to take him very seriously.

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Hi Bart, I read the particles here in this way.

By way of context, when Gorgias says (underlined):

οὐ μὴν ἀλλὰ πειράσομαί γε ὡς διὰ βραχυτάτων. > καὶ γὰρ αὖ καὶ τοῦτο ἕν ἐστιν ὧν φημι, μηδένα ἂν ἐν βραχυτέροις ἐμοῦ τὰ αὐτὰ εἰπεῖν> .

he is not making an argument, but a claim. There are two other important context points:

  1. He makes this claim to explain why he will try to speak διὰ βραχυτάτων (previous sentence).
  2. This is not the first claim he’s made in the conversation, e.g. a little earlier at 449b (underlined):

—οὐκοῦν καὶ ἄλλους σε φῶμεν δυνατὸν εἶναι ποιεῖν;
—> ἐπαγγέλλομαί γε δὴ ταῦτα οὐ μόνον ἐνθάδε ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄλλοθι.

With that context, hopefully the particles are clearer: καὶ γάρ is being used in the second way described in Cambridge grammar sec. 59.66 on καὶ γάρ (in continuous discourse, with γάρ introducing an explanation/motivation); I see αὖ as marking Gorgias’ shift to making yet another claim (see Cambridge grammar sec. 59.13 including n. 2).

Edit: I see Michael replied just before me, and I think the explanations are the same or similar.

Cheers, Chad

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Thanks to both of you!