GESTA FRANCORUM - Gerundive in Ablative

Dear all,

Excerpt from Gesta Francorum:

(Quos dux persequens invictus cum Christi militibus septem ex illis occidit, persequendo alios usque ad portam civitatis)

My translation:

= When the invicible Duke pursuing them with army of Christ, he killed seven of them, and (when pursuing) he killed the others near the gate of the town

Persequendo is Gerundive, here it is used in Ablative case - seems strangle, and it is Deponent Verb. I guessed it is Ablative Absolute, literally (being pursued)

Please kindly share your ideas,

Thanks

Hello Testsuda,

In Medieval Latin the Gerund (not Gerundive) “is often used in the ablative instead of any case of the present participle” (Sidwell, Reading Medieval Latin, Grammar, §18, p. 368).

You can also see this thread for another example of this.

Dear Shenoute,

Thanks so much, but as I looked up dictionary: persequendo is gerundive - not gerund, right?

Sincerely yours,

No, persequendo is here a gerund, as Shenoute said. More importantly, persequendo alios
doesn’t mean “and (when pursuing) he killed the others” but simply “pursuing others.” He didn’t kill them, and alios is not ceteros. This use of the ablative gerund is medieval, not classical. In classical it would mean “by pursuing”, not just “pursuing.”

[@Shenoute. However, pace Sidwell?, it’s surely not a precise equivalent of the present participle? This very sentence illustrates the difference between persequens and persequendo?]

I hate to be topical, but this might not be the most tactful moment to bring up the slaughter of infidels by soldiers of Christ?

Do you mean that persequendo has retained some of its instrumental meaning here?

Well, it is at least more tactful than other extracts of the same work about the slaughter of Christians by the infidels :slight_smile:

Do you mean that persequendo has retained some of its instrumental meaning here?

No not that, but it doesn’t look as if they’re exactly interchangeable, does it? I’m wondering just what the difference is, what determines which is used when.