So I’m toying with switching over to Greek for all of my bible reading. I have readers for both LXX and GNT. Obviously it’s taking a lot longer, and the vocab in the psalms is crazy, but some of the other passages are far simpler than what I typically read in the GNT.
My question:
I’m doing in-depth reading each week that includes lots of re-reading and ensuring all vocab is put to memory, but at ~4 chapters a day, I can’t afford much more than reviewing the vocab at the bottom of the page and then moving on. I think there’s still a value to this, but clearly I’m in the “reading pain” level that Krashen talks about, vs. the 98% reading recognition that he says is ideal. What do you all think? Can this be valuable–over time?
Your technique is to read once with the reader slowly (UBS or the 2-volume LXX, I suppose), and then re-read several more times with the same, going through pretty fast?
Is there a particular reason why you’re reading 4 chapters a day? Perhaps it would be better to take it slower at first, say, 1-2 chapters a day. Particularly if you need the reader editions to help you with vocabulary.
My plan has been to ‘master’ a passage through repeated readings over and over during the week, and then moving on to another passage (what my pastor is preaching on that Sunday).
Otherwise, I had been going through a bible in the year plan, which averages out to 4 chapters a day. These, I would work through with the reader and then not return to until I have some need to do so.
I think 4 chapters a day, at least chapters with poetry, is not possible without giving up more time for other things than I should. 2 chapters seems doable.
As I’ve been attempting this, I think I am still picking up a word or two as I go along, typically it seems that I’m reinforcing the words that I learn through my intensive reading. I think the extensive reading is at the very least, making me somewhat familiar with other passages and other styles of Greek.
With Latin I can burn through CI material at a fairly quick rate because there are so many options at my reading level and also at the level that is just a bit higher than what I can read quickly. Greek, on the other hand, has far less material, but tons of “real” Greek is available with reading helps.
Basically, I’m just trying to figure out if there is value in reading a text through while relying on some vocab helps without taking the time to memorize every single word.
Have you mastered the core vocabularies for the GNT and the Septuagint? If not, I would work on that while reading, and take a slower pace of 1-2 chapters a day for a while. At least, master the GNT vocab if you haven’t. This will help you in working with the LXX because there is some overlap. But I advise working with both sets. A couple of great helps in this are these two books which list them in a book by book arrangement:
Christopher Fresch, A Book-by-Book Guide to New Testament Greek Vocabulary, on Amazon at
I would also recommend using some kind of flashcard system, such as Anki or Quizlet, for the vocab.
I’ve also found that listening to recordings of the texts helps as well in building comprehension, once you’ve begun to master the vocab and know the basics of sentence structure. One good source of this is Faith Comes by Hearing, which has several audio Bibles, including Ancient Greek. You can either download them or listen online. Downloads page (type in Greek, Ancient, or Koine) https://www.faithcomesbyhearing.com/audio-bible-resources/mp3-downloads. Recordings database (for listening online; you can also read the text while listening); type in Greek and then select OT/NT, then the Bible book, https://www.faithcomesbyhearing.com/audio-bible-resources/recordings-database. These are read by a native modern Greek speaker and are really fabulous.
You definitely want to read as much as possible, no question. But to really benefit, you need to use approaches that help you maximize comprehension. Some of this only comes with time and more familiarity with the Greek texts. But mastering the vocabulary and the basics of grammar are indispensable, as well.
The theory of mastering a core vocabulary through flashcards, and building on that, is an entrenched one. But I think that there is a lot to be said for mastering a core vocabulary simply by mastering core texts. You’ll have the inefficiency of having to learn some words earlier than they appear on the frequency chart, but you have the gain of learning words in their natural contexts and usage, together with their characteristic associations, rather than as abstracted glosses in your native language. That’s how I think about it anyway.
I spent a lot of time with flashcards when I was younger, am disenchanted with them now, and have not yet made my way to Lewis’s re-enchantment stage.
Flashcards, I agree, aren’t the best approach for everyone. But they can be one helpful method. I had gotten away from them myself (when I was younger and first learning Koine Greek and Biblical Hebrew, I used physical ones, with paper and ink). More recently, I’ve used Anki, One nice feature of those is that the app tracks which words you need more reps on. Also of value is the option to reinforce text with audio and visuals on the cards.
I agree with the value of learning in context. Which is why I have come to value the traditional grammar/translation approaches much less than I once did.
If the OP has not mastered much vocabulary and grammar basics before launching into the readings, he can still do these as he goes. Realistically, however, he will have to slow his speed to do it that way. But, to each his own.
I just ran across these publisher today and thought I would pass these links along to you in case their books can help with your biblical Greek reading.
Why read the septuagint rather than an English version? Either way, you’re reading a translation.
I think it helps a lot to have a core vocabulary of about 500 words, and one way to get going on building that vocabulary is flash cards. For the words that have helpful cognates, like γλῶσσα ~ glossary, I find that the flashcard plus the cognate are enough to lock it in. But for many others, there’s just no way that you’re going to get it in long-term memory except by reading it repeatedly. For a word like γε, a flashcard isn’t going to help; it would be like a Japanese speaker trying to learn the meaning of “to” from a flashcard.
Why read the septuagint rather than an English version? Either way, you’re reading a translation.
The OP indicated that he wants to do his Bible reading in Greek. If he includes the Old Testament, that would mean the Septugint, or one of the other Greek versions such as Symmachus or Theodotion. My understanding is, however, that the latter two are only available in fragments now and that complete OT texts of them are not available.
You are right that flashcards do not work well for some types of words. There the value of reading in context comes in. For myself, I’m going back to using them to supplement other methods, not relying on them exclusively as a learning method.
the Septuagint is actually an earlier stable text than the standard Hebrew text - so while I’d never argue that’ it’s better than reading the Hebrew, it’s not at all the same as reading either the Hebrew or the English
the Septuagint is what is cited in the NT and known to NT authors, so to understand their thinking, the Septuagint is > the Hebrew
it is a massive source of Greek prose which is generally much easier than, say, Aristotle
If studying “the classics” (whatever that means) is to have any value, then its value should lie in challenging us by exposing us to different times and their alien ways of thought. It would be unfortunate to say, I believe in religion X, which is based on a distorted picture of religion Y, so I want to make sure to study the distorted version of Y, which allows me to avoid challenging my own assumptions.
You don’t need to accept any particular religion, or any religion at all, to be interested in and engaged with the historical/textual questions: what texts did the authors of the NT study (answer: seemingly the Septuagint texts, vs. the Hebrew), and what impact did the details of those texts have upon the formation of their own texts?
To put it another way: while many people (including myself) might lean toward your way of engaging with the classics, there are many historical and textual questions (which in themselves require no particular religious viewpoint) to which the study of the Septuagint’s Greek text is relevant.
Of course, the text of the Septuagint still has great value to those who know and primarily value the Hebrew, because it helps figure out questionable/corrupt passages in the Hebrew, like Coptic and Syriac texts can (maybe less often) illuminate the text of the NT.
For anyone who cares at all about the NT for any reason (literary, historical, or religious), the study of the Septuagint has some value. I’ve scratched the surface of the reasons - the book, of course, explains it better than I can.
Other examples: there are texts (included in some translated bibles but not in others) which are specific to the Septuagint, and for which there are not, and may have never been, an “original” Hebrew texts. E.g., Maccabees. Just this body of Septuagint-only texts, if it was in Coptic, would be a major edition to the corpus.
In the case of Maccabees, 1 Macc. apparently has a Hebrew original (now lost), judging from the simpler sentence structure and Semitic idiom. The other books under that name, 2-4 Maccabees, definitely were composed in Greek. Compare the sentence structure of 2 Macc. to that of 1 Macc. in Greek to see what I mean.