Etiam si puellae cupiditate fere consumebatur, cet.

Latin Learning Latin
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Hi,

I’m reading these days some stories from ‘Fabulae Syrae’, a book written by Luigi Miraglia. Today I found this locum, which I couldn’t understand well enough. I tried to render it in (into?) English, in order to ask you this question, but my writing skills are so bad that I wanted to cry.

It says: “Daphne, filia Penei, qui deus cuiusdam fluminis erat, primus amor fuit Apollinis; qui tamen, etiam si puellae cupiditate fere consumebatur, ab ea ut amaretur efficere non poterat: namque puella eum oderat atque fugiebat”.

I know that ‘etiam si’ means ‘even if’ or ‘although’; also, ‘fere’ is an adverb which means something such as ‘usually’, ‘most of the time’. The verb ‘consumebatur’ is written in its passive form, so ‘cupiditate’, an ablative, could be its agent. I thought, then, that ‘puellae’ could be a genitive modifying ‘cupiditate’.

But I don’t know how to put all these words together. Maybe: ‘Who nevertheless, even if most of the time was consumed by the desire of the girl’… Agh, that’s horrible. I’m sorry.

I’m not trying, though, to render the text in(to) English, but to understand it in Latin. Unfortunately, I can’t understand this line. Hopefully, a translation will shed some light on its meaning.

Also, here’s another passage: ‘Ne laudes meas cupiveris, neve posthac talibus armis usus sis’.

I tried to write the same line with the indicative (ne + coniunctivus perfecti → noli/te + infinitivus praesentis activi), but I’m not that sure.

“Noli laudes meas cupere nec (?) posthac talibus armis uti (usus esse?)”.

My question being: he (the writer) uses ‘neve’ in order to join two clauses of ‘ne + coniunctivus perfecti’?

“Two clauses of”. Agh. I hate my English. Poor English. Poonglish. I’m feeling so embarrassed.

Thank you all…

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fere – “almost.”

cupiditate puellae – “his desire for the girl”

Noli laudes meas cupere nec posthac talibus armis uti – you have this right, I think. neve would be the correct conjunction with ne. As you write, “he (the writer) uses ‘neve’ in order to join two clauses of ‘ne + coniunctivus perfecti’.”

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Don’t worry about your English. It may not be absolutely perfect, but it’s fine!

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Thank you for your answer (gratias tibi ago!). But then, which is the case of ‘puellae’? Is it dative or genitive?

PS: I know that I should have written a ‘presentation’ post, but my English level isn’t good enough, nor do I have anything of interest to say about me. I’m feeling, though, like I broke some rules posting here before I did my ‘entrance’. I would have liked to talk with you all in Latin, too. But I was (and I am) so bad at doing it, that I found it to be useless.

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which is the case of ‘puellae’? Is it dative or genitive?

Genitive.

Lewis & Short Latin Dictionary, cupiditas:

II In a bad sense, a passionate desire, lust, passion, cupidity.

A In gen.
(a) > With gen.> : pecuniae, Caes. B. G. 6, 22; Quint. 7, 2, 30 al.: praedae, Caes. B. G. 6, 34: praeceps et lubrica dominandi, Cic. Phil. 5, 18, 50: laedendi, Quint. 5, 7, 30: diutius exigendi mercedulas, id. 12, 11, 14 et saep. —

This is an “objective” genitive.

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Ah! Finally I got it. I didn’t understand why you wrote ‘for’ instead of ‘of’ (my poor knowledge of English grammar failed me!).

Thank you again, :slight_smile:!

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Hello,

This morning I read once again another chapter from the same book. There are two sentences, though, which I can’t understand entirely.

The first one: ‘Tremebat iam toto corpore, pallebat vultus, odio erat affectum miserum cor, neque iam tenuis spes animum tenebat’.

‘Tenuis spes’ is the nominative, the subject, which doesn’t have (‘tenebat’) any ‘animum’ (accusative). What’s the meaning of ‘animum’ here? Force? Will? Courage? On the whole, I think it means that her hope (Daphne’s hope) was next to nothing (?), almost extinguished.

Besides this, I guessed that ‘Tremebat iam toto corpore’ was another example of an ablative of specification (I don’t know whether ‘ablative of respect’ is the same or not), such as ‘capite laboro’.

The second one: “Capillos, fides, pharetramque mihi semper ornabis”.

Is mihi an example of a possessive dative (or ‘sympathetic dative’)? Or it’s merely indicating for whom the action happens, for whose advantage?

Ah! There’re two more questions (ignoscite mihi!).

1. “O, mi amor, cor meum, sola mea spes! Ne me fugeris!”.

Is ‘me’ an ablative of separation?

2. “Non tibi, prave puer, fortia arma conveniunt: umeros meos ista decent, qui nuperrime solus Pythonem serpentem interfeci. Quid opus est tibi arcu? Apud matrem maneas! Ne laudes meas cupiveris, neve posthac talibus armis usus sis!”.

Why did they write it in the subjunctive mood? Is it an exhortation? I didn’t understand it that way. I thought he was stating the reason why ‘fortia arma non tibi conveniunt’ (but I don’t know why they would have used the subjunctive!).

Gratias tibi ago (once more), sodales.

PS: Just out of curiosity, how would you translate, into English, the sentence ‘quid opus est tibi arcu’? Or ‘Quid opus est armis?’.

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iam tenuis spes animum tenebat’. – “her spirit”: not even a slight hope held her spirit"

Tremebat iam toto corpore – "she was trembling with her whole body.

"Capillos, fides, pharetramque mihi semper ornabis – the terminology for different types of datives is slippery and not always helpful, but I’d call this a dative of interest. “for me” Literally, “you will always adorn the hair and the quiver for me,” but in translating you could transfer mihi to capillos pharetramque: "you will always adorn my hair and my quiver.

"Ne me fugeris! – me is simply the accusative direct object of fugeris. “Don’t flee me.”

Apud matrem maneas – “jussive” or “hortatory” subjunctive–like an imperative, but more polite or less harsh. “you should stay” or just “stay” in translation.

quid opus est tibi arcu’? Or ‘Quid opus est armis?’. “What use to you is your bow/arms?” “Why do you need your bow/arms?”

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Thank you so much, Hylander.

I didn’t know ‘fugio’, like ‘flee’, has also a transitive meaning. I thought it could only mean ‘flee from somewhere’ (its intransitive form, nisi fallor).

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Lewis & Short’s Latin Dictionary is an on-line resource for where you can find reliable information about Latin words, with illustrative examples, such as, for example, transitive and intransitive usages of verbs, complements of verbs, complements of adjectives, etc. It’s an old dictionary (1879), and it has been superseded by the Oxford Latin Dictionary as the most comprehensive and authoritative Latin-English dictionary, but it’s easy to consult on line and very reliable despite its age. The Oxford Latin Dictionary is very expensive.

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/Reference/lewisandshort.html