Context: Villeius has just finished his exposition of the teachings of the Epicureans concerning the nature of the gods. Now, Cotta, who is Cicero’s spokesman for the Academic school, takes up the topic. Cotta praises Villeius by comparing his eloquence and style with that of Zeno (of Sidon, not the preSocratic Zeno). Now Cotta begins his critical attack on Epicureanism, by referring to Zeno of Sidon.
Sed, quod in illo mihi usu saepe venit . . . accidebat. . . .
Rackham translates thusly: “But what often occurred to me in his case happened. . . .”
I don’t understand the grammar of the Latin phrase, especially the relationship of illo and usu.
I want the antecedent of illo to be Zeno of Sidon, and I want usu to be the object of the preposition in.
usus, usus is a word I have a lot of trouble with.
Zenonem, quem Philo noster coryphaeum appellare Epicureorum solebat, cum Athenis essem audiebam frequenter, et quidem ipso auctore Philone, credo ut facilius iudicarem quam illa bene refellerentur, cum a principe Epicureorum accepissem quem ad modum dicerentur. non igitur ille ut plerique, sed isto modo ut tu, distincte graviter ornate. Sed quod in illo mihi usu saepe venit, idem modo cum te audirem accidebat, ut moleste ferrem tantum ingenium (bona venia me audies) in tam leves ne dicam in tam ineptas sententias incidisse.
illo modifies usu (with a slight hyperbaton). usu here means something like “frequentation”, i.e., Cotta’s frequentation of Zeno’s school in Athens, where he heard him speak. in illo . . . usu – “during that frequenting of Zeno”.
But what often came to me during that frequentation of Zeno likewise happened to me when I listened to you just now, namely that I was troubled that so great an intellect (if you will excuse me) had fallen into such superficial, not to say inept, ideas.
ut moleste ferrem is a result clause with accidebat.
From Lewis & Short, s.v. usus:
[select] Intercourse, familiarity, association, intimacy, society (cf.: “consuetudo, conversatio): domesticus usus et consuetudo,” Cic. Rosc. Am. 6, 15: “quocum mihi est magnus usus,” id. Fam. 7, 32, 1; 9, 25, 2: “conjunctus magno usu familiaritatis,” id. ib. 13, 52: “in tanto usu nostro tantāque amicitiā,” id. Planc. 2, 5: “inter nosmet ipsos vetus usus intercedit,” id. Fam. 13, 23, 1: ut insinuaret se in quam maxime familiarem usum, Liv. 40, 21, 11: “recens praestat nec longo cognitus usu,” Ov. Tr. 3, 5, 9: “natio nullo commercio colens mutuos usus,” Curt. 7, 3, 5: “neminem in usu habes nisi tibi dilectum,” Plin. Pan. 88.
Oh, that is most helpful, Hylander, and thank you for your trouble! You must wonder if I will ever learn to read this material properly.
I did not see the “frequentation” meaning that you set forth and its connection with Cotta’s experience at Zeno’s school. I was focusing much more tightly on Zeno’s style. Your explanation makes the passage more interesting, especially in connection with Cicero’s mission in these philosophical books, to carry over in Latin what he had studied in Greek, in Athens.
I took it more like Hugh did. usu venire is a phrase meaning (more or less) to happen (to someone) in practice or experience, and in illo will simply mean “in Zeno’s case,” independently of usu. So “quod in illo mihi usu saepe venit” will mean something like “what I often experienced with him, …”
No?
I still think my interpretation is better. For me, illo contrasts with modo; I had the same feeling when I was frequenting him back then as I did just now when I listened to you. But I could be wrong. And the translator seems to agree with you.
Hi all, I haven’t read this work yet (focusing on the speeches), but this case of usu uenit (I read it that way too) brought into relation with accidebat:
N.D. > 1.59 > Sed quod in illo mihi > usu > saepe > uenit> , idem modo cum te audirem > accidebat> ,
reminded me of:
S. Rosc> . 42 > quod Erucio > accidebat > in mala nugatoriaque accusatione, idem mihi > usu uenit > in causa optima.
It seemed to be a button that Cicero liked to press (perhaps to avoid repeating the verb?):
Sen> . 7 > nam si id culpa senectutis > accideret> , eadem mihi > usu uenirent > reliquisque omnibus maioribus natu, > (which in turn recalls > R> . 329b: εἰ γὰρ ἦν τοῦτ᾽ αἴτιον, κἂν ἐγὼ τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα ἐπεπόνθη, ἕνεκά γε γήρως, καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι πάντες ὅσοι ἐνταῦθα ἦλθον ἡλικίας.)
Tusc> . 1.73 > nec uero de hoc quisquam dubitare posset, nisi idem nobis > accideret > diligenter de animo cogitantibus, quod is saepe > usu uenit> , qui cum acriter oculis deficientem solem intuerentur, ut aspectum omnino amitterent;
Dyck reads it this way too in his commentary (2003 p. 141):
usu uenire > is “to occur in one’s experience, in the course of events,” etc.: OLD s.v. > usus > 8.
Many thanks to Hylander, mwh, and cb for their instructive comments. Hylander made me see the meaningful context of the problematic sentence, while mwh and cb taught me the idiom usu venire, which I did not know.