“Cogitanti mihi saepe numero et memoria vetera repetenti perbeati fuisse, Quinte frater, illi videri solent, qui in optima re publica, cum et honoribus et rerum gestarum gloria florerent, eum vitae cursum tenere potuerunt, […]”
I’m perfectly fine with this sentence, except for ‘numero’. What is it doing there? Is he referring to (large) number of old memories or am I completely missing the point?
Any help much appreciated!
Ps. is anyone aware of an english (or dutch or german) translation of this text on the net?
M.T. Cicero De Oratore, Or, His Three Dialogues Upon the Character and Qualifications of an Orator" By Marcus Tullius Cicero, William Guthrie:
“After a repeated view, and recollection of past events, my dear brother, to me, those men seem to have been placed in the most eligible situation, who under a sound government, in the fulness of honour and enjoyment of glory, could either act up to their public character with safety, or descend to retirement with dignity.”
It seems a somewhat loose translation, but could the word ‘repeated’ be the answer? I.e. saepe numero = often in/by number = repeatedly?
I find numero very hard here, and it is clearly not a main verb. I see you’ve beaten me to a good solution though. I think that’s what it has to mean; it seems pleonastic with saepe, but perhaps I am missing some subtlety.
“Cogitanti mihi saepe numero et memoria vetera repetenti perbeati fuisse, Quinte frater, illi videri solent, qui in optima re publica, cum et honoribus et rerum gestarum gloria florerent, eum vitae cursum tenere potuerunt, […]”
Wanneer ik in gedachten ben verzonken en oude tijden in mijn geheugen weer oprakel, dan heb ik dikwijls de indruk, broertje Quintus, dat diegenen die in de opperbeste republiek, op het moment dat ze floreerden met hun carrière en met de roem van geleverde prestaties, die levenscours hebben kunnen aanhouden, immens gelukkig waren.
When i’m immerged in reflexions and remembering past times, I often think, bro Quinty, that those people, who could mantain this course of live in the best republic ever, when they flourished with their political carreer and with the glory of their deeds, were truely happy.
This is a possible Dutch and English translation that I just made. The main verb in this sentence is solent. Numero is derived from numerus here. In fact it is an ablative of numerus. This ablative is an ablative with saepe. Saepenumero or saepe numero is a fixed expression, mostly written with one word, sometimes written with two words. Saepenumero means ‘often’. Originally the ablative was limitating saepe ‘often in number’, later it was simply seen as an adverb. In this case the idea of ‘often’ is expressed twice: in saepenumero and in the verb solent. The idea of ‘often’ here is expressed in a pleonastic way.
I hope I helped you,
Sorry for the bad English and the not really nice translations, I had to make them quite quickly, anyway I hope these translations make clear what I wanted to point out,
Cogitanti mihi saepe numero et memoria vetera repetenti perbeati fuisse, Quinte frater, illi videri solent, qui in optima re publica, cum et honoribus et rerum gestarum gloria florerent, eum vitae cursum tenere potuerunt, […]"
Hey !
I am rather rusty but will nevertheless make a stab at rendering the sentence. As for saepe numero, it just means “often” (“often in number” maybe). The subject should be illi and the main verb and it’s complementary infinitive is videri
Having considered the matter VERY often and having racked my memory for historical examples, it seems to me that those persons in our noble republic are generally quite fortunate who have been able to persist in public life while excelling in both the attainment of offices and the glory of their deeds.
I only attempted this because the given translation seemed weak. On the other hand, if I have missed the mark, I shall deem myself fortunate if one of you will correct me.
I gotta start reading the whole thread before jumping in. I just now realized that Moerus had already given a good English translation. By offering my own I intended no criticism of his effort, which looks good to me, but rather of that other effort that that was pulled the the net. Sorry again!
nolite timere: Moerus neque perterritus neque iratus, sed valde fessus est. Hic (in Italia) iam hora tertia noctis est. Ea de causa mihi nunc necesse est cubitum ire pulchraque somniare. Tamen, spero pulchra fore!
Ceterum dico duas translationes siue conversiones multo meliores esse quam modo unam.
Mendum feci cum id quod sequitur scripsi
cuando escribe lo siguiente hice un error
I erred when I wrote the following
The subject should be illi and the main verb and it’s complementary infinitive is videri
Mihi scribendum fuit hoc
Hubiera escrito esto
I should have written this
The main verb is solent which takes the complementary infinitive “videri”
Mihi addendum fuit quod verbum “solere” saepenumero adverbo traditur
Debo haber notado que muchas veces el verbo “solere” se traduce con un adverbio
I should have noted that the verb “solere” is often translated using an adverb
Haec studia mihi gratissima sunt
Para mi estos estudios son muy divertidos
These studies are really fun