Can αὐτοὶ and αὐτοὺς ever mean “we” and “you”? And what about “αὐτοὺς”? I’m thinking of cases where they are paired with a participles. If so, why would one do that rather than use the usual pronouns? Or does the translation always work out to “we ourselves fighting” or “you yourselves fighting”?
Smyth in 1206a. says it’s not a personal pronoun, but is nonetheless translated as such in those instances.
Thanks, but why do you say:
Smyth inserts “himself” in his “translation” registering the intensiveness. Doesn’t the pronoun in the translation just come from the participle and/or finite verb as it would if the αὐτοὶ were absent?
Sorry. I didn’t even notice that addition. Sometimes, however, inserting -self/-selves pronoun
sounds so awkward to me that I leave it out, even if it’s indeed implied.
Do you have a specific passage in mind?
I don’t know if this answers the question, but here are some examples from Plato:
-
Apology (18d3)
οἱ δὲ καὶ αὐτοὶ πεπεισμένοι ἄλλους πείθοντες
And some, having been persuaded themselves, persuade others. -
Apology (19c2)
ταῦτα γὰρ ἑωρᾶτε καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν τῇ Ἀριστοφάνους κωμῳδίᾳ,
You have seen these things for yourselves in the comedy of Aristophanes. -
Euthyphro (6b2)
τί γὰρ καὶ φήσομεν, οἵ γε καὶ αὐτοὶ ὁμολογοῦμεν περὶ αὐτῶν μηδὲν εἰδέναι;
And what shall we say, we who at least agree that we know nothing about these things?
In examples 19c2 and 6b2, αὐτοὶ appears to have an effect like γε: even you agree. The sense would also work without them. But, I can see a slight smile on Socrates as he repeats the word ‘you’, almost accusing the audience and the judges.
I’m reminded of the line from the beginning of the Apology, where we find αὐτός used as a strengthener of the first-person:
ἐγὼ δ᾽ οὖν καὶ αὐτὸς ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν ὀλίγου ἐμαυτοῦ ἐπελαθόμην, οὕτω πιθανῶς ἔλεγον.
“And so by them, even I myself almost forgot about myself, they spoke so convincingly!”
ἐγώ + αὐτός = “I myself”
ἐμαυτοῦ = “of/about myself”
So, if it’s in the plural, of course it can represent more than the third-person.