I’m really struggling with translating this sentence, in Exercise 14β.6:
ἡ γυνή, πολλῷ σωφονεστέρα οὖσα του ἀνδρός, ἀληθέστερα εἶπεν.
The chapter is looking at comparative and superlative adjectives and adverbs. In this sentence I see two comparative adjectives: ‘more prudent’ and ‘more true’.
My translation would be:
“The woman, being far more prudent than her husband, spoke …” And here my problem is I would expect an adverb: ἀληθέστερον ‘more truly’. I can’t understand how to fit a feminine adjective into the sentence. It has to be modifying γυνή, but in what way? I think it’s a predicate adjective, but I’m not sure how that helps. What am I missing? Any help would be very welcome.
Hi Prisca,
Look at the accent of ἀληθέστερα - notice how it’s on the antepenult, whereas with σωφονεστέρα it’s on the penult? This tells you that ἀληθέστερα is probably a neuter plural because it can only take an accent on the antepenult if the last vowel is short.
In this case, ἀληθέστερα is being used substantively to indicate something in general: truer things (words, thoughts, etc.).
Thanks so much, guys. I see it now. I very much appreciate your help.
And particularly, thanks to Aetos for pointing out the telltale accent. I need to keep an eye out for that.
I am very grateful to you all. What a great resource.
Thanks very much, pavein. Wish I had access to that book. So it seems everyone is right. It’s a substantive adjective plural, being used more or less adverbially.
I don’t think this is quite right. Because someone chooses to use in an English translation an adverbial form this does not mean that the Greek uses an adverb.
Reading the Greek as Greek Aetos is correct. How you translate it is a different matter. Using an English translation as a guide to how the Greek works is not necessarily as helpful as it might seem.
I spoke loosely and stand corrected. So, it is a straightforward adjective in the Greek, but one might be justified in translating it adverbially in English?
The Greek uses the neuter plural adverbially sometimes, as here, with no particular substantive implied. (Even the comparative neuter plural.) Here’s the same from Isocrates:
I’d think that Aetos is correct up to the last sentence of his post, and Barry after him. Smyth 345 would seem like it would have a lot of exceptions on this. In Anabasis, for example, οἵ τε γὰρ Κρῆτες βραχύτερα τῶν Περσῶν ἐτόξευον…, which surely doesn’t mean they shoot shorter things. I’m sure more could be found.
I didnt mean to `'correct" you. I just wanted to make the point that how things are expressed in English is different to how they expressed in Greek.
My inclination is always to stick to the examples given in the textbook you are using. I am sure exceptions might be found but they are not going to help you in the early stages. So on page 272 (of the third edition) you are given the comparative adverb ῾ἀληθέστερον῾ I think you are supposed to notice that in the sentence you are translating that this differs from “ἀληθέστερα” as has been discussed above.
My interpretation of the English translation offered in the teacher’s guide (which of course relates to the second edition)
“.. spoke more truly (more true things).” is that “more true things” is the literal translation and that “more truly” is more idiomatic English. I dont think you can infer from the translation that “ἀληθέστερα” is being used adverbially in Greek.
Seneca, I truly wouldn’t mind if you were correcting me. That’s why I’m here. And I really appreciate your advice and help. What you’ve said makes good sense, and I’ll take it all on board.
Barry, πολλά isn’t comparative. (That would be πλέα). The normal Greek really is for comparative adverbs formed from accusative adjectives to use the singular neuter form when comparative and the plural when superlative. This is the rule of the grammarians, anyway, but Kuhner gives a good number of exceptions. The plural comparative adverb is not, however, in his list of exceptions. But I gave examples above and didn’t have to look hard for them. So the constructed Greek here is not impossible, but really should have used the singular.
Seneca is not correct, however, to state that the adverbial accusative is a matter of English translation idiom, and should review his Cambridge Grammar 30.18, especially Note 1.
Right, thanks for the catch. Still learning my forms, I’m afraid. πλέα would have been “full things” from πλέως. I should have said πλέω or πλείονα, etc., from πλείων.
Seneca is not correct, however, to state that the adverbial accusative is a matter of English translation idiom, and should review his Cambridge Grammar 30.18, especially Note 1.
I did not of course say that.
One has to wonder how helpful some of these posts are to the OP.
I just wanted to make the point that how things are expressed in English is different to how they expressed in Greek.