Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 10

Jason, thank you for your interest and patience.
btw, there’s a typo in your first line here: he instead of she :confused:
I just want to reassure you, my delay is caused by family and work, not by lack of motivation.
I am determined to finish Athenaze II either.
Different personalities may need different approaches. I never give up, but I have to cope with life, so I’m ready to accept slower rhythms. I seem to understand you need a faster approach.
Sorry, I’m reliable and stubborn but slow.
So far, I have also printed all the pages with our comments, mistakes, correction etc. and I revise them all.
Finally, Ch 10 is not a problem, actually it’s where things get really interesting for me.
bye :wink:

Excellent. See? If we had been speaking Hebrew all this time, I would have known that you are a female. It’s not a typo, just a misunderstanding. I was thinking that Bruno would be masculine and Bruna feminine, but I learned a while ago not to judge by such things. Sometimes feminine-looking names are actually masculine (νεανίας, for example), and sometimes masculine-looking names are feminine (like νόσος). So, I just said “he” as an assumption. And now I know. :slight_smile:

I’ll check your 10α later and give feedback. Sorry I haven’t gotten to it yet. I’ve also got loads of things going on!

Agree with all of this.

I differed only on your βλέψουσα. I wrote βλεψομένη. Since the future of βλέπω is deponent, I used a deponent participle, too. Would you agree?

All good.

Do you know if the dative would be natural for sending one person to another person? I wrote it with πρὸς τὸν βασιλέα. Don’t know if there would be a difference.

Δέ should appear between ὁ and βασιλεύς – ὁ δὲ βασιλεύς.
I missed that ἀκούω becomes deponent in the future. I’ll add that to the verb forms PDF.

Just correct νεανίας to νεανίαι.

Very nice!

Here are the translation exercises for 10β.

Exercise 10η

  1. ἆρα μενοῦμεν ἐν τῷ ἄστει ἢ οἴκαδε πορευσόμεθα;
  2. οἱ παῖδες τὸν πάππον ἐγεροῦσιν· δι᾿ ὀλίγου γὰρ ὁρμησόμεθα.
  3. ὁ αὐτουργὸς τὸν λύκον λίθοις βαλεῖ.
  4. ἑσπέρα δι᾿ ὀλίγου γενήσεται· ὁ αὐτουργὸς τὸ ἄροτρον ἀρεῖ καὶ οἴκαδε οἴσει.
  5. οἱ δοῦλοι τοὺς βοῦς λύσουσι καὶ οἴκαδε ἄξουσιν.
  6. ὁ Θησεύς, ἀνδρεῖος ὤν, τὸν Μινώταυρον ἀποκτενεῖ.
  7. οἱ μὲν παῖδες οἴκοι μενοῦσιν, ἐγὼ δὲ πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ σπεύσω.
  8. ἆρ᾿ οὐκ ἐγερεῖς τὸν πάππον; ὀψὲ γὰρ εἰς τὸ θέατρον ἀφιξόμεθα.

Exercise 10θ

  1. ἴθι δή, ὦ παῖ, καὶ τῇ μητρὶ εἰπὲ ὅτι πρὸς τῇ θύρᾳ μενῶ.
  2. πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν ἴμεν καὶ τὸν κύνα ζητήσομεν.
  3. τὸν κύνα ὁρῶμεν πρὸς τὰ πρόβατα προσιόντα.
  4. ὁ πατὴρ ἡμᾶς κελεύει οἴκαδε ἐπανιέναι.
  5. αἱ παρθένοι εἰς τὸ ἄστυ ἴασιν.
  6. ἴτε, ὦ παρθένοι· ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῖν εἰς τὸ ἄστυ ἡγήσεται.
  7. ἡ μήτηρ πρὸς τὴν κρήνην εἶσιν· τὰς δὲ παρθένους κελεύει ἑαυτῇ συλλαμβάνειν.
  8. αἱ παρθένοι πρὸς τὴν κρήνην ἰοῦσαι μεγάλας ὑδρίας φέρουσιν.
  9. αἱ γυναῖκες αἱ πρὸς τῇ κρήνῃ ὁρῶσιν αὐτὰς προσιούσας.
  10. “χαίρετε, ὦ παρθένοι,” φασίν. “πότε πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ ἴτε;”

Exercise 10ι

  1. ἄγγελον πέμψομεν ὡς τοῖς πολίταις πάντα λέξοντα.
  2. οἱ πολῖται πρὸς τὴν ἀγορὰν σπεύδουσιν ὡς τοῦ ἀγγέλου ἀκουσόμενοι.
  3. εἰς τὸ ἄστυ πορεύονται ὡς τῇ ἑορτῇ παρεσόμενοι.
  4. παρασκευάζονται ὡς μαχούμενοι.
  5. ὁ Θησεὺς πρὸς τὴν Κρήτην πλεῖ ὡς σώσων τοὺς ἑταίρους.

Exercise 10κ

  1. καιρός ἐστιν ἐπανιέναι· δεῖ ἡμᾶς εὐθὺς ὁρμᾶσθαι.
    Don’t wait; we must hurry.
  2. ἆρ᾿ οὐκ ἔξεστιν ἡμῖν τὰς τραγῳδίας θεᾶσθαι;
    Can’t I/May I not stay in the city?
  3. οὐ δεῖ σε τύπτειν τὸν νεανίαν.
    We must carry the boy to the spring.
  4. δεῖ τὸν Φίλιππον τῷ πατρὶ πείθεσθαι.
    Melissa must stay at home.
  5. ἆρ᾿ ἔξεστί μοι γιγνώσκειν τί πάσχει ὁ παῖς;
    We are allowed to/We may/We can go to the city; we must start immediately.

Exercise 10λ

  1. τί βούλεται ὁ Ὀδυσσεὺς εἰς τὴν νῆσον πλεῖν;
  2. βούλεται γιγνώσκειν τίνες ἐν τῇ νήσῳ οἰκοῦσιν.
  3. ὁ Κύκλωψ τὸν Ὀδυσσέα ἐρωτᾷ πόθεν ἥκει.
  4. πῶς ἐκφεύγουσιν ὅ τε Ὀδυσσεὺς καὶ οἱ ἑταῖροι;
  5. ἆρα πάντας τοὺς ἑταίρους σῴζει ὁ Ὀδυσσεύς;
  6. ἐπεὶ ἐκφεύγει ὁ Ὀδυσσεύς, ποῖ πλεῖ;
  7. ὁ Αἴολος τὸν Ὀδυσσέα ἐρωτᾷ τίς ἐστι καὶ πόθεν ἥκει.
  8. ὁ Αἴολος τὸν Ὀδυσσέα ἐρωτᾷ πότε ἐν νῷ ἔχει ἀποπλεῖν.

Exercise 10μ

  1. For nine days the wind carries Odysseus through the sea, but on the tenth he arrives at another island.
  2. The nymph Calypso lives there; she receives him kindly.
  3. Loving him, she says: “Stay with me always on the island.” But Odysseus wants to return home and to see his wife and child.
  4. Finally Zeus sends a messenger and orders the nymph to release Odysseus.
  5. Calypso tells him to make a raft and helps him.
  6. When the raft is ready, Odysseus sails away rejoicing.

Good luck!

my few comments:

I’m afraid you’ve missed out on something. My name actually IS BrunA, not BrunO, your assumption is correct in Italian. Enough of that, :laughing: whatever you call me it’s always me.

You’re right, I also spotted a typo in my n. 5

Exercise 10δ
In n. 10 I have a future, while you have a s. present. I think mine is correct. Do you agree?

I looked it up, it’s possible but rare with dative, a prepositional phrase is definitely better.

n. 2 you’re right about δὲ, and I remember making the same mistake previously

n. 3 Just correct νεανίας to νεανίαι.Very nice!

παῖδες, actually (copied from your work)
I wonder how these children managed to grow into young men in my translation :laughing:

n. 5 silly of me.

thank you for helping. I’ll manage to post part of 10B by the end of the week

Oops! I just realized I haven’t done the second half of Lesson 10 exercise-I thought I was ready to move on to 11! So I will work on the rest of Lesson 10-might take a few days. I am still in it, so hope we can keep all our present members & maybe get some more. Regards, Paige.

Yeah, I noticed before that you said you were ready for 11, and I was surprised - since we hadn’t done 10β yet. :wink:

Out of curiosity:

Do you guys spend much time reading the text/story sections of the chapters? Or, do you jump into the grammar explanations and exercises?

I read them and go back to them if necessary, mainly when I translate from English.
It doesn’t take me a long time because I had already studied them carefully, so it’s kind of a revision now.
But I read the stories that come after the exercises and I also answer the questions below each paragraph as I’ve Always done with reading comprehension tasks in modern languages.

out of curiosity: why are you asking? I mean I remember you’ve brought up the same question in past posts, so I think you may either consider them a useful resource or you may be afraid they are generally dismissed as unimportant.

out of topic: I think the exercises in CH 10 are not sufficient to master all the grammar points presented.
even more out of topic: from time to time you’ve said deponent futures don’t come easy. My biggest problem at the moment are verbs in -μι. I haven’t come to terms with them yet.
I’m about to post this week’s work. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
have a nice weekend :slight_smile:

I owe my work to my husband’s old tablet.
Since I got hold of it I’ve been able to work more.

Exercise 10η

  1. Will we stay in the city or will we journey home?
  2. The boys will wake up grandfather, for we will soon set ourselves in motion
  3. The farmer will hit the wolf with stones
  4. It will soon be night; the farmer will lift the plough and take it home
  5. The slaves will loosen the oxen and lead them home
  6. Theseus, who is brave, will kill the Minotauros
  7. While the boys will stay at home, I will hurry to the city
  8. Won’t you wake up grandpa? For we will arrive late at the theatre

I have still one to do. And then ready for CH 11 and

Exercise 10θ

  1. Go then, child, and tell mother I will wait/stay by the door
  2. We will go to the field and look for the dog
  3. We see the dog while he is approaching the sheep
  4. Our father orders us to return home
  5. The young women will go to the city
  6. Go, young ladies: father will lead you to the city
  7. The mother will go to the fountain, and/so she orders the girls to help her
  8. The girls, while / who are / going to the fountain, carry big water jars
    The girls carry big water jars while going to the fountain
  9. The women by the fountain see them approaching / as they approach
    10.”Hello, girls” they say, “when will you go to the city?”

Exercise 10ι

  1. We will send a messenger to tell the citizens everything
  2. The citizens hurry to the square to listen to the messenger
  3. They’re journeying to the city to be present at the festival
  4. They are preparing themselves to fight
  5. Theseus sails to Krete to save his companions

Exercise 10κ

  1. It is time to go back; it is necessary for us to set in motion at once
    Μὴ μένετε• δεῖ ἡμᾶς σπεύδειν
  2. Can’t we watch the tragedies?
    Οὐκ ἔξεστί μοι ἐν τῇ πόλει μένειν;
  3. You mustn’t hit the young man
    Δεῖ ἡμᾶς τόν παῖδα πρὸς τὴν κρήνην φέρειν
  4. Philip must obey (his) father
    Δεῖ τὴν Μέλιτταν οῖκοι μένειν
  5. May I know what the boy is suffering?
    Ἔξεστιν ἡμῖν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ ἰέναι• δεῖ ἡμας εὐθὺς ὁρμᾶσθαι

Exercise 10λ

  1. Why does Odysseus want to sail to the island?
  2. He wants to know/learn who lives on the island
  3. The Cyclops asks Odysseus where he has come from
  4. How do Odysseus and his comrades escape?
  5. Does Odysseus save all his comrades?
  6. When Odysseus escapes, where does he sail to?
  7. Aeolus asks Odysseus who he is and where he has come from
  8. Aeolus asks Odysseus when he is going / he intends/plans to sail away

I have still one exercise left, then ready for CH 11 and aorist

Exercise 10η

  1. Shall we remain in the city or journey home?
  2. The children wake [their] grandfather; for they will soon head out.
  3. The farmer will pelt the wolf with stones.
  4. It will soon be(come) evening; the farmer will take up the plough and carry [it] home.
  5. The servants will release the oxen and lead [them] home.
  6. Theseus, being brave, will kill the Minotaur.
  7. While the children will remain at home, I will hurry to the city.
  8. Will you (s.) wake [your] grandfather? For we will arrive late at the theatre.

Exercise 10θ

  1. Go on, boy, and tell your mother that I will wait at the door.
  2. We will go to the field and seek the dog.
  3. We see the dog approaching the sheep.
  4. [Our] father tells us to return home.
  5. The girls will go to the city.
  6. Go, girls; [your] father will take you to the city.
  7. The mother will go to the spring; and she tells the girls to help her.
  8. The girls, going to the spring, are carrying large water jars.
  9. The women who are at the spring see them approaching.
  10. They say, “Greetings, girls. When will you go to the city?”

Exercise 10ι

  1. We will send a messenger to tell the citizens everything.
  2. The citizens hurry to the market to hear the messenger.
  3. They journey to the city to be present at the festival.
  4. They are preparing themselves to fight.
  5. Theseus sails to Crete to save [his] companions.

Exercise 10κ

  1. It’s time to return; we must set out immediately.
    μὴ μένε· δεῖ ἡμᾶς σπεύδειν.
  2. Can we not watch the tragedies?
    ἆρ᾿ οὐκ ἔξεστί μοι ἐν τῷ ἄστει μένειν;
  3. You must not strike the young man.
    δεῖ ἡμᾶς τὸν παῖδα φέρειν πρὸς τὴν κρήνην.
  4. Philip must obey [his] father.
    δεῖ τὴν Μέλιτταν οἴκοι μένειν.
  5. Can I know what the boy is suffering?
    ἔξεστιν ἡμῖν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ ἰέναι· δεῖ εὐθὺς ὁρμᾶσθαι.

Exercise 10λ

  1. Why does Odysseus want to sail to the island?
  2. He wants to find out who lives on the island.
  3. The Cyclops asks Odysseus where he has come from.
  4. How do both Odysseus and [his] companions escape?
  5. Does Odysseus save all [his] companions?
  6. When Odysseus escapes, where does he sail to?
  7. Aeolus asks Odysseus who he is and where he has come from.
  8. Aeolus asks Odysseus when he intends to sail away.

Exercise 10μ

  1. ἐννέα ἡμέρας ὁ ἄνεμος τὸν Ὀδυσσέα διὰ τὴς θαλάττης φέρει, τῇ δὲ δεκάτῃ εἰς ἄλλην νῆσον ἀφικνεῖται.
  2. ἡ νύμφη Καλυψὼ ἐκεῖ οἰκεῖ· ἐυμενῶς αὐτὸν δέχεται.
  3. ἐρῶσα αὐτοῦ, “ἀεὶ μένε μετ᾿ ἐμοί,” φησίν, “ἐν τῇ νήσῳ.” ὁ δ᾿ Ὀδυσσεὺς βούλεται νοστεῖν (οἴκαδε ἐπανιέναι) καὶ τήν τε γυναῖκα καὶ τὸν παῖδα ὁρᾶν.
  4. τέλος ὁ Ζεὺς ἄγγελον πέμπει καὶ κελεύει τὴν νύμφην τὸν Ὀδυσσέα λύειν.
  5. ἡ Καλυψὼ κελεύει αὐτὸν σχεδίαν ποιεῖν καὶ βοηθεῖ αὐτῷ.
  6. ἐπεὶ ἡ σχεδία ἑτοίμη ἐστίν, ὁ Ὀδυσσεὺς χαίρων ἀποπλεῖ.

Excellent. I do wonder why you chose “set ourselves in motion” rather than simply “get started” or “set off” or “head out.” Were you attempting to stick to the more literal meaning of it?

I would take the circumstantial participle in #8 as telling us why the girls are carrying the jars. Do you agree?

Perfect. In English, we spell ἡ Κρήτη as Crete. Oh, and why don’t you put periods at the end of your sentences? :wink:

The “set in motion” thing is still weird for me. Everything here looks in order. I’m still not sure why the semi-colon doesn’t work for you. It is Alt+Shift+] to make it appear. Is that what you’re using?

Excellent. :slight_smile:

Looking forward to your last exercise and going into the aorist in the next chapter.

Hey, Paige. How’s it going with the second half of 10? Got any questions or comments about the exercises?

J. I’m working on it -things aren’t going so well just now. Have some personal concerns & on top of everything, my electricity went off at 2 AM this morning-for 12 hours, & it was 25 degrees outside! No sleep of course. I volunteered to go in to work just to stay warm, so I’m way off schedule. But still-let’s keep going. BTW-I usually try to read through the stories, but usually get a little impatient. But they are good, well-done I mean.

I’ve never experienced -25! the minimum we reached was -20 few years ago. it’s terrible! and with electricity gone!
don’t worry if you are behind with work, I’m patient, I prefer to wait a little longer to losing a companion.
have a nice week.

set in motion explained above.
semi-colon: I write my work here http://www.poesialatina.it/_ns/Tastiera4.html then copy and paste. it’s faster than with those combinations.
in n. 5 I used (though with a typo) ἡμᾶς, you didn’t. Don’t you think that ἡμᾶς would be necessary? it is to me, for it is us and not anybody who have to start immediately.
In other words: people must start immediately as opposed to we must start immediately. Does that make sense to you?

finally, this is my last exercise
Exercise 10μ

  1. Ἐννέα μὲν ἡμέρας ὁ ἄνεμος φέρει τὸν Ὀδυσσέα διὰ τῆς θαλάττης, τῇ δὲ δεκάτῃ ἀφικνεῖται εἰς ἄλλην νῆσόν τινα
  2. Ἡ νύμφη ἡ Καλυψὼ ἐκεῖ οἰκεῖ• εὐμενῶς αὐτὸν δέχεται
  3. Αὐτὸν μὲν φιλοῦσα• “Αεὶ μένε μετ’ἐμοῦ” φησίν “ἐν τῇ νέσῳ”. Ὁ δὲ Ὀδυσσεὺς βούλεται οἴκαδε ἐπανιέναι - νοστεῖν καὶ ὁρᾶν τήν τε (ἑαυτὴν) γυναίκα τε καὶ τὸν παῖδα
  4. Τέλος δὲ ὁ Ζεὺς ἄγγελον πέμπει καὶ τὴν νύμφην κελεύει τὸν Ὀδυσσέα λύειν
  5. Ἡ Καλυψὼ αὐτῷ λέγει σχεδίαν ποιεῖν καὶ αὐτῲ βοηθεῖ
  6. Ἐπεί ἡ σχεδία ἑτοίμη ἐστίν, ὁ Ὀδυσσεὺς χαίρων ἀποπλεῖ

I’ve already cross-checked it. Is μετ’ἐμοῦ the same as μετ’ἐμoι? Do you have any comments?

I’m satisfied with my work. Thank you for helping.
have a nice week
sorry, I see from the preview this post is rather untidy, but I must go.

I’ve just completed the last of the verbs in the future tense from Athenaze chapter 10.

You can view it here.

I’ve also opened a new thread for lesson 11.